https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=699674

and

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=700477

Share the wealth!

 

awesome test

too bad no smsp

 

yea, sucks that sms didnt get in on this one, maybe next time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Don't forget that SMSP spent a lot of time and money on the <u>first</u> header test.

I am speculating that he (1)probably didn't understand why he would have to go through all this again, since he'd already done it once before, and (2)he might not even <u>have</u> an ITR header laying around that he could have sent.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are good analogies why should continue to support tests like these. The obvious is that many of the headers tested are new and were not tested the first time. If he wants to remain a contender he needs to support the tests that seem to be done well and are publicized as well as this one (for those who read more than just this forum).

Edit: Has to changed to should


Modified by Asahi at 11:09 AM 12/9/2003

 

SMS is number one in my book , i did not know about the test...

 

There is a reason why Other company'Z are taking SMSP'Z design and copying it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM CTR '00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a reason why Other company'Z are taking SMSP'Z design and copying it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That isn't the only header that is being somewhat copied.

And btw - there is a local guy here making long tube primary headers... but he also did all his physics and math calculations to come up with his specs.

Doesn't it seem understandable to you all that there is probably only a few good configurations that work, and when 4-5 different people come up with similar solutions, this would be acceptable?

There is way too many conspiracy theories on here. YES, I agree people have copied certain headers, but others came up with their configurations all on their own. The entire header market did not copy all their designs from SMSP and Hytech.
It doesn't matter if he's already proven himself... in order to stay on 'top' you have to keep re-proving yourself. This is no different than sports, music, everything. You don't just win the Super Bowl once and claim the title of best NFL team EVER. It doesn't work that way. Dave can do what he wants... its his company, his perogative. I can understand why he would be in the header test, and can understand why not. That's not in question here.

I'm not pointing any fingers... just stating opinions.

I just hope people aren't trying to invalidate the current header test.


Modified by Chris N at 10:35 AM 12/9/2003

 

Wait.. let's let Dave speak for himself. George is not Dave. While I agree that George made some bad statements here (especially considering he slamed john@hytech for practically the same words) he does not represent SMSP so let's not get all pissed at SMSP or anything.

-Dave, who is just trying to stop a retarded bandwagon.

 

Well i'll just leave it here and let Dave jump in when he get's the chance.

 

You're right. I appologize. George is not Dave so my quote would actually be invalid.

Truth be told though... If all facts stated are true Dave does has some questionable business ethics and as of now I would not purchase any product from SMSP untill proven otherwise.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Poitn taken Dave and I don't think anyone posting has any issue with SMSP. I truly wished we could have seen the header in the test as I am sure it woudl have done extremely well. SMSP makes a very nice product, always has.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As I said.. just trying to stop the bandwagon before it begins. The "SMSP doesn't want to support header tests or want our business, **** him!" bandwagon that I can see easily starting on this site. Let's face it, a lot of peoples honda-tech based buying decisions are based on hearsay and bandwagons that start without the involvment of the target, in this case SMSP. Unless I missed it, he hasn't said a word about this so far so I didn't want people taking George's poor choice of words and using it against Dave. I didn't mean to say that you or Chris were doing so. Just wanted to prevent it from the less.... free minded? HT collective..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My only issues were with the claim that SMSP doesn't have to participate and that GK didn't know about the test. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure GK did know. I didn't. Granted he posted in that thread but is it possible that he never read it again? never saw confirmation that it was going to happen? I dunno. I never read the thread at all since most header threads on this site become useless flame wars.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does Dave disagree with George?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Which Dave? lol do I? Yes. Does Dave Stadilus? I'll wait for him to speak.

edits: fixed some spelling and changed some words to better reflect what I meant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I woudl not have expected you to send it either way you offered that up, saying had you know which it seems you did as of Oct 29. Just seemed something was not adding up.

What I am questioning is statements made that don't add up. You were involved in the thread that proposed a new header test. This untrue?

Dave may not need more business but does he not feel he needs to maintain his position?

I was told they truly DID want an SMSP header there and looked hard for one. In fact since no one would ship one to them somoene was going to drive their car with an SMSP on the car for the test and in route had an accident. I do not know the specifics of the interaction between Dave and Titan. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow.

I really am getting old.

Seeing the original thread, I do remember, now. I am so sorry.

They probably felt that since I was in the thread at one point, that I was keeping up, but I really was not.

I have also been reminded by my buddy here that the header on my ITR is not the current SMSP design, so Dave probably wouldn't have wanted me to send it.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I just never got back to that thread, and honestly get tired of al the bickering in Allmotor Forum.

You mentioned my post disappearing.

At one point, I deleted my account and all the associated posts. My account was recreated later.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I did not keep up with the developments related to the test.

My sincere apologies to everyone.

 

I have removed all of my other posts after the misunderstanding.

I did leave the one where I do honestly feel SMSP should support other header tests. Especially at no exspense to him other than shipping.

I do feel all participants have the right to the terms of the tests before agreeing to participate. And also to have all results of the test provided to them in a concise write up (Sounds like Free header testing to me )

 

***** Hey: You use the enter key waaaayyy too much btw. That post is almost as hard to read as a 500 line post with no line breaks at all.

 

Yeah, I was going to swing by there and check out there testing since it's like 10 minutes from my house, but I'm too lazy.

Dave - thanks for stopping by the other night to say what's up and have a you homo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RealTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have a you homo </TD></TR></TABLE>

ROFL....

Shouldn't you be a little more careful w/the name calling there?

 

I've been away from the board for a couple days and just got wind of this thread.

The only person who speaks for SMS Products is me. Always has been and will continue to be that way. I'm learning how important this is and I'm not referring to this thread either.

As for the Titan Motorsports Header Test, I believe it was probably performed better than the last test (2 years ago) since there was some tuning involved. Maybe I should have entered it but I never received an email request from Titan.

I didn't have my latest stainless steel header available and frankly I would have preferred to have been there during the testing. My headers have been copied multiple times during the last year and I wasn't comfortable sending a new version to the test since I didn't know who would be present and what (if any) ties those people had with other companies that built or planned to build headers.

2 years ago I drove to Michigan in early December to be a part of the first header test. I missed my wife's annual Christmas/Family Reunion. This past Saturday the 6th we had the reunion again and at my house and there was no way that I was putting a header test in front of my family again.

Trey, you may feel that I should have entered this test, but in fact I'm a very small company. I can do only so much free stuff. I helped with the first header test which I even supplied the exhaust for and paid for my own transportation and had to sell the exhaust and header at reduced used prices. I was a sponsor for the 2003 Expo. I try to help out on this board in a technical manner. I frankly can do only so much. I do have my wife and 2 small children that also require and deserve the greatest amount of my time.

I know I can't and won't please everyone and it's impossible to try. In this market you will always have people wanting more and more for less and less. When will a header be ready for this engine/car? Why can't you do this first? Hey this guy who sells stuff from his house is $10 cheaper then you, can you beat his price? I'm not bitching, but I have to set priorities and look for new ways to bring products to market faster. Priorities unfortuneately cause some things to be put off, it's just a simple fact and this test was one of them. I'm sure there will be other tests.

I figured that a Hytech header would show up to the test and I'm not surprised that it came out on top. There have been tests between my product and the Hytech so I'm comfortable with that.

Obviuosly, I'll have to rely on the results of my customers and not of this test since my product wasn't entered. I'm happy that Gordon Mack runs my standard GSR header, that's 2 years old, on his B20VTEC low $$ street Integra and has set the fastest 1/4 mile times in the nation without using ITBs or a custom built fancy header. Corey Jacobs was also the 2002 HC H2 champion and would have probably been the 2003 champion if he didn't have some of those DNFs, so my other non B series products seem to do well also.

And yes, I'm very interested in expanding my business.


Modified by SMSP at 5:46 AM 12/10/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Trey, you may feel that I should have entered this test, but in fact I'm a very small company. I can do only so much free stuff. I helped with the first header test which I even supplied the exhaust for and paid for my own transportation and had to sell the exhaust and header at reduced used prices. I was a sponsor for the 2003 Expo. I try to help out on this board in a technical manner. I frankly can do only so much. I do have my wife and 2 small children that also require and deserve the greatest amount of my time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do feel SMSP has a reputation to defend and resting on laurels isn't a good way to do it. Realizing you are SMSP makes the seperation difficult but SMSP not you, Dave needs to keep this in mind.

I do respect your priorities to your family. It is often difficult to maintain these and you seem to have yours in order.

Shame on Titan for not contacting you directly in at least some sort of attempt to get SMSP involved.

Maybe one day we can do something organized as a community much like the last test but with some of the testing methods of the latest test.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RealTypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dave - thanks for stopping by the other night to say what's up and have a you homo </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL did you ever call me? No. You called D, not me. We were busy painting his car. Sorry that I did not get to see you guys jumping on each other in person lol

 

owned. Painting the mini? Sweet, gonna have to stop by and see it later tonight I'll buy you a lap dance at DR's next time I see you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM CTR '00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a reason why Other company'Z are taking SMSP'Z design and copying it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

because they can....it is the american way!!

find something someone does better and copy it!

 

At least it's better than the Chinese way where they just straight up copy it and change a letter in the brand.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

because they can....it is the american way!!

find something someone does better and copy it!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess that's how america is, Oh well

 

 

WOW.

to Dave @ SMS.

I haven't purchased anything from him to date, but have seen many of his headers (and even prototypes) in person over the years.

Hey Dave, if you see this - I still have that certificate for a test pipe that I won at expo 3. I'll hit you up later on that note.....

Anyway, I have no qualms about sending people to get a header from Dave. His professional manner and high quality of products has always been commendable. I wish there were more people like him in this game.

As a matter of fact, Dave I sent you a local buddy who needs a header for his itr powered crx w/ jimfab crossmember. We can possibly take a trip to visit you for fitment measurement, etc if necessary.