there is no option from Honda to replace a power steering rack to a manual rack. i was wondering that, there has to be a manufactuer that has made a manual rack for a 4th gen lude for racing or cost effectivness. any info would be appriciated. maybe Corey or Satan have some info?

i already did a search-nothing

 

You can't buy one, noone makes them for 4th or 5th gens.

you can convert the stock rack to a sort of maual rack. You have to loop the hydrolic lines together for both side of the piston in the rack, and remove the pump. I'm thinking about doing this over the winter myself, I will take lots of pics as I do it, then post them up here. Take a look in your helm's manual and you will see what needs to come out and what needs to stay in. There was a topic about this some time back, but it might of been under the racing section try your search there.

 

by looping the two hydralic lines obviously will prevent leak but does it aid in the ease of steering.

 

No, there is no hydralic help without the pump. There really isn't a need to remove it, hp gains are negligible..... a simple pully works just as well

 

I know it's better to try it for yourself, but I'll see if I can't dissuade you anyway. Like the guy above said there are minimal hp gains. But it's really gonna be a pain to drive. I had mine disconnected for about a year in autocrossing. Then when I hooked it back up, it really made it alot more fun to drive. P/S is really a very good thing.

Shoot, I even hate the manual racks on old CRX's and the like. P/S all the way!

 

How about ways to make the P/S soooper stiff, or as stiff as possible? ... its good to have power assist when paralell parking or parking lots and such but when your going fast there really isn't a need to have power steering at all.

 

There really isn't a need to remove it, hp gains are negligible..... : spoolinlude

ok there deff. is a noticable diff in gains, when you remove the belt. Try up to a 8hp difference!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about ways to make the P/S soooper stiff, or as stiff as possible? ... its good to have power assist when paralell parking or parking lots and such but when your going fast there really isn't a need to have power steering at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It depends on the rpm/output curve of the pump, but you can essentially stiffen it up with an underdrive pulley.

Really, you get essentially no assist from the power steering at high speeds. I know at least on 3g's, and I'm 90% certain on 4g's that the speed sensor is part of the p/s system, and by the time you get to ~45 mph, you're getting basically no assist at all. 5g's are different with their rpm sensitive system.

If you really wanna mess with the p/s system, just get a pulley. I highly recommend against removing it or doing anything else particularly drastic. I assure you you'll be much happier in the long run, and that you won't be missing out on anything.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolinlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, there is no hydralic help without the pump. There really isn't a need to remove it, hp gains are negligible..... a simple pully works just as well</TD></TR></TABLE>

i understand the dynamics of a power steering system. i am no tlooking for hydraulic help. i am looking for a replacement part.

and by the way you are absolutly 100% wrong on your statment on power advantages for no P/S vs. just a pulley. on the mustang dyno i tune on just by removing the belt i increased 6.8 whp consistantly. with an AEM pulley the gains were less than 1hp. last time i checked 6.8 whp for free was not a negligible gain.

 

Wrong? Yeah ok, the mustang dyno never lies right......... hahaha.... The big NA guys in here go through leaps and bounds to gain 5hp...... and none of them have removed their PS, there's a reason why..... it sucks for driving and they can make the power up elsewhere....... don't call me out if you don't know me.... i'm up to school on dyno charts anytime, but please with a real dyno........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolinlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wrong? Yeah ok, the mustang dyno never lies right......... hahaha.... The big NA guys in here go through leaps and bounds to gain 5hp...... and none of them have removed their PS, there's a reason why..... it sucks for driving and they can make the power up elsewhere....... don't call me out if you don't know me.... i'm up to school on dyno charts anytime, but please with a real dyno........</TD></TR></TABLE>

what are you talking about. im not calling you out nor am i trying to be disrespectful. i was just informing you. are you saying that i pulled these numbers out of my ***, and that a mustang dyno isnt up to par. please explain? and who ever said anthing about driving the car daily. i know it is a pain to turn the wheel on a lude w/o p.s. what makes you say that a mustang dyno isnt a real dyno. it is far superior than a dynojet or dynapack. it shows back to back gains just as a dynojet would. most guys with civics run w/o p/s, the wheel is easier to turn due to less front end weight, or they can just swap a manual rack out.

p.s. i will be more than happy to e-mail you the dynochart where i tested the p/s benefits on the dyno

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about ways to make the P/S soooper stiff, or as stiff as possible? ... its good to have power assist when paralell parking or parking lots and such but when your going fast there really isn't a need to have power steering at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

With PS it is much stiffer than manual at higher speeds. I personally like the PS better than a manual at speed. If it was a race only car I might feel differently.


I wonder if the CRX manual rack would fit into a 4th gen if you used the 4th gen tie rods. A friend has one kicking around I should look to see if it would fit for S's&G's

 

I wonder how much the actual powersteering assembly weighs in general. Does anyone know for a fact how much it weighs?

 

I never said you numbers were false, I believe you, I'm just terribly disgusted with mustang dynos for my own reasons......... as for a weight reduction?? I can't see that making a huge difference in turning of the wheels...... it only weighs like maybe 15lbs......... so i'd still doubt any noticeable "easyness"

 

I think it's worth pointing out that just removing the belt isn't indicative of how much steering effort will be required if you "convert" to manual steering. With the pump assembly & everything still hooked up, you end up having to force all the fluid through the entire p/s system by yourself (including the stagnant pump). As anyone who's ever removed the belt can tell you, that's a lot of work.

But if you "convert" the system to loop the fluid in a circle from one end of the rack to the other, and possibly include some kind of breather filter, it should cut down on steering effort dramatically. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone with a Prelude who's done it - but it's fairly common with the Integra guys - a search should bring up lots of posts on the subject.

And the weight savings aren't insignificant -- I mean, the pump itself weighs at least 7 or 8 pounds. And the bracket it mounts on is a pretty big hunk of steel . . . . I seem to recall figures of 15-20 pounds thrown around for the entire system. And most of it's high up & forward in the engine bay, so it's beneficial weight to lose.


Modified by Daemione at 2:39 PM 12/17/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daemione &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it's worth pointing out that just removing the belt isn't indicative of how much steering effort will be required if you "convert" to manual steering. With the pump assembly & everything still hooked up, you end up having to force all the fluid through the entire p/s system by yourself (including the stagnant pump). As anyone who's ever removed the belt can tell you, that's a lot of work.

But if you "convert" the system to loop the fluid in a circle from one end of the rack to the other, and possibly include some kind of breather filter, it should cut down on steering effort dramatically. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone with a Prelude who's done it - but it's fairly common with the Integra guys - a search should bring up lots of posts on the subject.

And the weight savings aren't insignificant -- I mean, the pump itself weighs at least 7 or 8 pounds. And the bracket it mounts on is a pretty big hunk of steel . . . . I seem to recall figures of 30-35 pounds thrown around for the entire system. And it's all high up & forward in the engine bay, so it's beneficial weight to lose.</TD></TR></TABLE>


thank you very much for your assistance. your info was very helpful. i did a search in the integra forum and found some very interesting info.

i am going to do this very soon so i will let everyone know

 

ok when removing the ps there is actually three hoses that go behind the intake manifold, what is that big one that come from the top of the pump and witch ones should i loop.

 

Here is a diagram of exactly what I did in my 4th gen to remove the power steering and obtain a manual steering rack feel.




First I put a loop where the speed sensor used to be - see left circle. The speed sensor still operates fine without fluid - or you can put fluid into a closed loop with the sensor.

Next I tee-ed the main loop - see center circle, and ran that hose to a resevoir. That way when you turn the wheel, any excess fluid or air with flows smoothly in and out of each side (also any air will escape the system).

That is the best way to do it.

ps. the resevoir was found at a Junk yard, and the hoses are all fuel lines (I believe)

 

LOL i did not kno there were a lot sissies in this forum that are to weak to turn a car w/o p/s .... dang i had the belt off for a year and got used to it in a day.

BTW good info XES.

 

andlude - you're gonna have to look at a Helms to figure out how all the hoses run for whatever model you've got.

Looks good XES - so you've got the IM removed in that picture, right? What all would you have to pull in order to do this? Any input on exactly how much weight you were able to pull off the car?

And just an FYI for everyone - the 5th generation p/s system is a little bit less complicated than the 4th gen - no fluid going to the VSS. So you should theoretically be able to just loop the fluid right at the steering rack, and get at it from underneath. But I haven't taken a very close look at mine yet to see how easy this will be to do. I suspect my ATTS unit is gonna get in the way somehow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daemione &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks good XES - so you've got the IM removed in that picture, right? What all would you have to pull in order to do this? Any input on exactly how much weight you were able to pull off the car?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The motor is out in that pic. It was quite a simple install though with it out. It would be alot tighter if the engine was in place (but do-able)

 

well we were dead at work today (i am a tech at a honda dealer) so i decided to try this mod. the lines that i looped were the high pressure line and the line out of the rack to the cooler. i removed the cooler and other lines. for my breather/overflow i used the line coming out of the rack that runs derectly to the resovoir. i used the stock p/s resovoir as my overflow. i capped off the other two holes at the resovior.

results were definately better than just removing the belt. althogh it is still pretty tough it is definatly livible now. i would recommend this mod to any one who is serious about going fast. if you like to cruise your lude with the bling bling status this mod is no for you. on the dyno without the belt i had a 7whp increase at peak. the weight savings, well ididnt have a scale but i would say 10-15 lbs.

i also removed my A/C today. i can tell a differenc in acceleration especially in VTEC. i enjoy going fast and staying all motor but our 4th and 5th gens will not be able to keep up with a 200 whp 2100lb civic hatch without weight mods, no matter if you are making 230 whp they are just so ******* light.

 

After 2 weeks of driving with no Power steering I bulked up and didn't notice the difference.

No PS and no AC makes a huge difference in low end lag and acceleration. Once you have it off you don't want to put it back on!

 

any one tried using a smaller steering wheel ...i no it sounds cheap but i put a sparco mugello ..its 13 inches in dia, about 2.5 inches smaller

big diff in steering feel it alot harder to move than my crap *** accord steering (thats why i tried the wheel )

when the car is off though i can barely move the wheel so no belt is out of the question for me

ps i did drive my car for 6 months without the p/s and power was better ....

 

Bingo..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After 2 weeks of driving with no Power steering I bulked up and didn't notice the difference.

No PS and no AC makes a huge difference in low end lag and acceleration. Once you have it off you don't want to put it back on!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I only miss PS when I am not moving the car, which isn't much