type -r pump -vs- gsr pump
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type -r pump -vs- gsr pump
I have a itr swap in a 95 civic ex. Is the civic ex pump to weak to handle the itr motor. Does the type r pump, pump more fuel then the gsr. Since I have a type-r should I just get a type -r pump? Im I missing out on a lot by running the motor with my civic ex pump???
something different
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: grand rapids/chicago, usa
your ex pump is fine for a stock ITR motor.....my buddy has ran an ITR motor off a stock 91 civic standard pump for a whole year, its fine. your not missing out on any power....the pumps are probably the same anyways. unless your goin with wild mod's there shouldnt be any reason to change it if it runs fine.
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From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Re: type -r pump -vs- gsr pump (turkdog)
My stock Civic EX pump worked fine up to 210 whp. When I built my bigger motor, I went with the Walbro, but the EX pump should work fine for you.
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: (redzcstandardhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your ex pump is fine for a stock ITR motor.....my buddy has ran an ITR motor off a stock 91 civic standard pump for a whole year, its fine. your not missing out on any power....the pumps are probably the same anyways. unless your goin with wild mod's there shouldnt be any reason to change it if it runs fine. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't take it for granted that your stock pump can supply an ITR motor! Although it seems to be conventional wisdom that a stock pump is okay for anything this side of forced induction, it is not necessarily so. Especially if your pump is old and has high miles on it.
I thought that my stock fuel pump in my 1988 CRX DX was probably enough for my ITR motor. And everybody told me that it was. So I had no reason to doubt it was. After all, the car seemed to run fine. But after running slow quarter mile times with the car, I decided to conduct a simple (if not too safe!) test of the fuel pump.
In order to make power, the ECU depends on the fuel system to maintain a certain fuel rail pressure. The fuel system maintains fuel rail pressure by pumping more fuel than the motor needs and bleeding the excess through the regulator and back to the tank. If no fuel is bled from the regulator, fuel rail pressure is not being maintained. So a good test of fuel pump capacity is to see whether fuel is being bled back to the tank through the regulator under wide open throttle, high RPM conditions. If there is no flow out of the regulator, fuel pressure is dropping and your engine is starving for fuel.
To test this, I ran a hose from the regulator into a gas can inside the car. The hose was clear. So I could easily see when fuel flow stopped. I then took the car out on the road to do a test run at wide open throttle. To my surprise, fuel flow out of the regulator stopped pretty much the second the engine entered VTEC! In other words, from about 5500RPM to 8400RPM, the engine was running lean. And the higher the RPM, the leaner it was running. The car needs a higher capacity fuel pump plain and simple. I did a similar test on my B20 HB. Fuel return also stopped on this car, but at a higher RPM (5800RPM). This is most certainly hurting top end power and is making this car run slower ETs than it should (since quarter mile runs rely on top end power). The lean condition could also be harmful to the engine! NEVER take it for granted that the stock fuel pump is enough. Especially if it is old and has high miles on it. Because even with very mild setup (non-VTEC B20Z with just bolt-ons), the fuel requirement of the engine can outstrip the ability of the pump to supply enough fuel.
Modified by StorminMatt at 4:18 AM 12/3/2003
Don't take it for granted that your stock pump can supply an ITR motor! Although it seems to be conventional wisdom that a stock pump is okay for anything this side of forced induction, it is not necessarily so. Especially if your pump is old and has high miles on it.
I thought that my stock fuel pump in my 1988 CRX DX was probably enough for my ITR motor. And everybody told me that it was. So I had no reason to doubt it was. After all, the car seemed to run fine. But after running slow quarter mile times with the car, I decided to conduct a simple (if not too safe!) test of the fuel pump.
In order to make power, the ECU depends on the fuel system to maintain a certain fuel rail pressure. The fuel system maintains fuel rail pressure by pumping more fuel than the motor needs and bleeding the excess through the regulator and back to the tank. If no fuel is bled from the regulator, fuel rail pressure is not being maintained. So a good test of fuel pump capacity is to see whether fuel is being bled back to the tank through the regulator under wide open throttle, high RPM conditions. If there is no flow out of the regulator, fuel pressure is dropping and your engine is starving for fuel.
To test this, I ran a hose from the regulator into a gas can inside the car. The hose was clear. So I could easily see when fuel flow stopped. I then took the car out on the road to do a test run at wide open throttle. To my surprise, fuel flow out of the regulator stopped pretty much the second the engine entered VTEC! In other words, from about 5500RPM to 8400RPM, the engine was running lean. And the higher the RPM, the leaner it was running. The car needs a higher capacity fuel pump plain and simple. I did a similar test on my B20 HB. Fuel return also stopped on this car, but at a higher RPM (5800RPM). This is most certainly hurting top end power and is making this car run slower ETs than it should (since quarter mile runs rely on top end power). The lean condition could also be harmful to the engine! NEVER take it for granted that the stock fuel pump is enough. Especially if it is old and has high miles on it. Because even with very mild setup (non-VTEC B20Z with just bolt-ons), the fuel requirement of the engine can outstrip the ability of the pump to supply enough fuel.
Modified by StorminMatt at 4:18 AM 12/3/2003
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: (kid-honda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kid-honda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Way to lay it down matt.
People waste money on a fuel rail but not a fuel pump? go figure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess fuel rails look prettier and are easier to install.
People waste money on a fuel rail but not a fuel pump? go figure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess fuel rails look prettier and are easier to install.
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From: Fargo, ND, US
Re: (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Don't take it for granted that your stock pump can supply an ITR motor! Although it seems to be conventional wisdom that a stock pump is okay for anything this side of forced induction, it is not necessarily so. Especially if your pump is old and has high miles on it.
\Modified by StorminMatt at 4:18 AM 12/3/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep I feel the same way as you never did the test though. I just figured the walbro 190 for 89 bucks shipped would be a good investment. Although when the swap was stock I did use my stock dx fuel pump.
Don't take it for granted that your stock pump can supply an ITR motor! Although it seems to be conventional wisdom that a stock pump is okay for anything this side of forced induction, it is not necessarily so. Especially if your pump is old and has high miles on it.
\Modified by StorminMatt at 4:18 AM 12/3/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep I feel the same way as you never did the test though. I just figured the walbro 190 for 89 bucks shipped would be a good investment. Although when the swap was stock I did use my stock dx fuel pump.
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Anywhere, USA
Re: (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Don't take it for granted that your stock pump can supply an ITR motor! Although it seems to be conventional wisdom that a stock pump is okay for anything this side of forced induction, it is not necessarily so. Especially if your pump is old and has high miles on it.
I thought that my stock fuel pump in my 1988 CRX DX was probably enough for my ITR motor. And everybody told me that it was. So I had no reason to doubt it was. After all, the car seemed to run fine. But after running slow quarter mile times with the car, I decided to conduct a simple (if not too safe!) test of the fuel pump.
In order to make power, the ECU depends on the fuel system to maintain a certain fuel rail pressure. The fuel system maintains fuel rail pressure by pumping more fuel than the motor needs and bleeding the excess through the regulator and back to the tank. If no fuel is bled from the regulator, fuel rail pressure is not being maintained. So a good test of fuel pump capacity is to see whether fuel is being bled back to the tank through the regulator under wide open throttle, high RPM conditions. If there is no flow out of the regulator, fuel pressure is dropping and your engine is starving for fuel.
To test this, I ran a hose from the regulator into a gas can inside the car. The hose was clear. So I could easily see when fuel flow stopped. I then took the car out on the road to do a test run at wide open throttle. To my surprise, fuel flow out of the regulator stopped pretty much the second the engine entered VTEC! In other words, from about 5500RPM to 8400RPM, the engine was running lean. And the higher the RPM, the leaner it was running. The car needs a higher capacity fuel pump plain and simple. I did a similar test on my B20 HB. Fuel return also stopped on this car, but at a higher RPM (5800RPM). This is most certainly hurting top end power and is making this car run slower ETs than it should (since quarter mile runs rely on top end power). The lean condition could also be harmful to the engine! NEVER take it for granted that the stock fuel pump is enough. Especially if it is old and has high miles on it. Because even with very mild setup (non-VTEC B20Z with just bolt-ons), the fuel requirement of the engine can outstrip the ability of the pump to supply enough fuel.
I'd try a wideband on a dyno before this...
Modified by StorminMatt at 4:18 AM 12/3/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't take it for granted that your stock pump can supply an ITR motor! Although it seems to be conventional wisdom that a stock pump is okay for anything this side of forced induction, it is not necessarily so. Especially if your pump is old and has high miles on it.
I thought that my stock fuel pump in my 1988 CRX DX was probably enough for my ITR motor. And everybody told me that it was. So I had no reason to doubt it was. After all, the car seemed to run fine. But after running slow quarter mile times with the car, I decided to conduct a simple (if not too safe!) test of the fuel pump.
In order to make power, the ECU depends on the fuel system to maintain a certain fuel rail pressure. The fuel system maintains fuel rail pressure by pumping more fuel than the motor needs and bleeding the excess through the regulator and back to the tank. If no fuel is bled from the regulator, fuel rail pressure is not being maintained. So a good test of fuel pump capacity is to see whether fuel is being bled back to the tank through the regulator under wide open throttle, high RPM conditions. If there is no flow out of the regulator, fuel pressure is dropping and your engine is starving for fuel.
To test this, I ran a hose from the regulator into a gas can inside the car. The hose was clear. So I could easily see when fuel flow stopped. I then took the car out on the road to do a test run at wide open throttle. To my surprise, fuel flow out of the regulator stopped pretty much the second the engine entered VTEC! In other words, from about 5500RPM to 8400RPM, the engine was running lean. And the higher the RPM, the leaner it was running. The car needs a higher capacity fuel pump plain and simple. I did a similar test on my B20 HB. Fuel return also stopped on this car, but at a higher RPM (5800RPM). This is most certainly hurting top end power and is making this car run slower ETs than it should (since quarter mile runs rely on top end power). The lean condition could also be harmful to the engine! NEVER take it for granted that the stock fuel pump is enough. Especially if it is old and has high miles on it. Because even with very mild setup (non-VTEC B20Z with just bolt-ons), the fuel requirement of the engine can outstrip the ability of the pump to supply enough fuel.
I'd try a wideband on a dyno before this...
Modified by StorminMatt at 4:18 AM 12/3/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: (All MTR TODA HATCH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by All MTR TODA HATCH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd try a wideband on a dyno before this...</TD></TR></TABLE>
That might not be a bad idea. But if the pump can't even supply the fuel rail with the proper pressure, why bother with the expense? If nothing else, my test is free.
That might not be a bad idea. But if the pump can't even supply the fuel rail with the proper pressure, why bother with the expense? If nothing else, my test is free.
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: (All MTR TODA HATCH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by All MTR TODA HATCH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd try a wideband on a dyno before this...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also keep in mind that the cost of dyno time will be a good chunk of a new pump. If you suspect the pump is bad or can't keep up, just replace it.
Also keep in mind that the cost of dyno time will be a good chunk of a new pump. If you suspect the pump is bad or can't keep up, just replace it.
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From: BoulderThenDenver
Re: type -r pump -vs- gsr pump (sick64nova)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sick64nova »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would just throw a walbro 255 in there to be safe plus your stock pump is old and it is not worth blowing your motor
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That what I did.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That what I did.
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