... i take it back!

i'm going to babble a bit... got to be in a 98 m3 today... you guys out there really can outrun a stock m3? after taking it out for a spin and then driving the itr afterwards on the exact route... i'm not so sure. wow the engine sounds really nice... it's no vtec shriek, but it sounds... sophisticated? i can't think of a better word. great ride! it can do the same things as my itr does (except i can't hang the tail out in the itr), but it's nowhere near as harsh. but this one had motorsport wheels... ie. the ones that have a reputation for bending after hitting a pebble. seats seem awfully flat... i don't know what's so nice about them. side airbags! nice big glovebox. and it goes on...

so is it worth the repair costs? um, maybe i can work a third job.... or not. sigh.

 

IMHO, I prefer E46 330Ci over E36 M3. (The ultimate favorite is E30 M3... but that's another story.) E46 330Ci can do everything that M3 can, but in a civilized manner. I know some one will raise a black flag for me saying that, but let's face it, BMW has become more luxury oriented ever since E36... and if you're gonna get luxury, get E46 and have fun while you're at it. E46 has better interior ergo than older E36 and it feels more stiff. That's my 2 cents.

Oh E36M3 vs. ITR... I would pick ITR.
E46 330Ci vs. ITR... ITR by a hair.

 

A guy I know has a 99 M3 that only ran 0.1 secs faster than my ITR on the same drag strip. After a few nights down the 1320, he had to take his car in for repairs...something to do with the differential but it was covered under warrenty. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to own an M3, especially the new ones. I saw a pheonix yellow one while I was in Vancouver in July, it was parked by the parking lot where they had the basketball 3 on 3.

 

*ahem* that's Phoenix Yellow METALLIC to you buddy. haha, I just thought you were using the ITR paint color by habit so I checked out bmwusa.com. Guess it IS the same. to me!

 

I'd sell my Hybrid in a heartbeat if I knew I could get a good deal on a new M3. How can you compare a 343HP RWD inline 6 6speed to a 195HP FWD inline 4 5speed.

IMHO, the BMW wins hands down.

But then there's the price tags. $50k for the M3, $28k for the ITR.

 

I outran a turbo m3 on the highway once. Was running .85 bar.
Granted, it wasnt by much.
As far as the NA ones go, i will pull in 2nd,3rd, and most of 4th.
During 4th they will start catching up, and in 5th they blow by me.
Never ever do i try to take one from a stop.

 

I have driven my dad's 97 1/2 M3 many times, and would say this:

It has very good torque and is geared for it, but the motor feels as though it is trying to lay down after about 4500 rpm. they do not have a top end charge, which is a problem taken care of by the new M3 as I understand (haven't driven one of those yet). They are very well balanced - the older ones - and handle well.

I do not have an ITR (modded b16a in EF civic) but my old turbo d16a was far stronger than the M, and handled at least as well.

the only other problem is that they are vulnerable not only to breakage but tend to have a lot of down time secondary to electricals. Please see the associated service bulletins for ALL of the BMW electrical problems in ALL BMW's incl. 3,5,7 and X-trucks built up through 15 June OF THIS YEAR!

This is not to rag on them, but is a reality check on those thinking about them. As a final thought: with all of their down time (in comparison to HA's), check out their service rates and part prices!!!!This is one reason last year I got a GS 400 instead of a 540i.All I have had to do in the GS is change the oil with NO build probs and NO service issues....

 

okay it's slower... but as i see it, an m3 is just so much heavier with it's a/c, moonroof, leather, 4 airbags (this was a 98), sound insulation (eg. underhood sound deadening) etc. compared to an itr that's stripped down to nothing... being just a bit behind can't be that bad.

i only got to be in the m3 on the street though. going thru traffic, cutting in and out of streets... it always felt the power was always there. again torque is like a guilty sin for me... if i stay in or near vtec on the itr there is a lot of frantic shifting and screaming (from the engine, sometimes from me) the itr will do the same thing, but in the m3 i don't have to be so rushed.

and i got a kick over how the door windows drop down an inch when u close the door, and then go back up again... kept opening and closing the doors just to watch. yeah i don't have a life

still, the maintenance and reliability issue... my friend's m3 had an intermittent SRS warning light that he can't resolve, and sometimes the door open warning chime comes on even if the doors are closed. argh.

but the car has 40-50k kms on it and it sold for under $40k cdn w/taxes used. it had one accident and vandalism claim...

 

bmw has a great service maintenance plan. they cover even cover oil changes now. their service department is excellent (like comparing Saks 5th to Target...well maybe not that bad) compared to Acura's. my local dealer would bring out a flatbed to drop me a loaner and pick up my car---just for a routine maintenance appointment...awesome service.the few problems pale to the greatness of their cars.
anyhow, with all the "bad" happening to the R's...i'd actually feel more comfortable leaving an unlocked, top down e46 M3 convertible than a fully locked down ITR in a parking lot anywhere...and as soon as Yoshi floats me a loan i might do it


[Modified by koy, 7:32 AM 9/15/2001]

 

I think it depends on the area as I've experienced the opposite in the bay area, CA. The place where I bought my bimmer at has horrible service. I don't think I've been able to bring it in once without needing to have to bring it in again to get the job done right. It could even be the simpliest of tasks. My local Acura dealership offers great service and I always leave feeling confident. There's even a difference in loaner cars. At the bimmer dealership, I get a freaking Saturn which I don't think it's right considering what I'm dropping off. At Acura, I get an Acura as a loaner. As far as the free bimmer maintenance plan goes, you're pretty much paying for it upfront when you purchase the car. You just don't know it. Also, oil changes (which are cake compared to the Integra) are done at an average of 15k miles since they use Synthetic. I've yet to have an Inspection II done yet which is the more expensive service. For me, I kind of dread bringing the car in because I have to deal with the idiot service people. hehe

Haha, you're definitely safer leaving a bimmer in a parking lot than a R. We actually use the roadster as our beater. Never even club it like the R. It's the one we go to the movies, mall, and San Francisco in. I hate the R as a daily driver, it belongs on a track and that's it, not worth the stress of worrying about it all the time. Sick of needing to put thought into every action I do with the R, like parking it a certain way to avoid attraction. Once I have enough money for the E46 M3, R's going to be just a track car for sanity sake.

 

I still like the E30 2.3L/2.5L M3 so much man. Which u can get in LHD only I think. They are the real M3 which are made for motorsports purpose.

 

Hate to ask how much they charge for an extended service warranty; the other issue in that if your car is down for a week or ten days (believe me, NOT uncommon) you are SOL.That sucks, I would rather not take my car in at all xpt for reg. service.


the other thing is that even though Beemer feels "solid" I notice that my Dad's M does not have doors to close as smoothly or well as my TEN year old Civic 4 dr. which has been subjected to much abuse incl. numerous mid-12 sec passes in the 1/4 with 1.7 60 ft. times, and 150k miles....

 

I've got schrick cams fitted to mine which are wilder than evo III spec. When the girlie is in the M3 she can out run me in the ITR.

 

Lol...Ben was fooled by torque.I have a friend with a 95.It is the lightest model(other than the light weight.We are dead even from a stop until 120mph.When I drive it I would swear he would beat the **** out of me.You just can't beat the refinement of that car.

 

i've never been in a stock m3. my friend's 98 was not stock. it has some sort of carbon fiber dinan cai, a rechipped ecu, and some sort of dtm exhaust i don't recognize... sorry i'm not very bimmer conscious

 

Why does the window drop down an inch and then come back up after u close the door? I dun know much about BMW's! I've never been in an M3!

 

3-series bmw's have no windowframes, so when u open the door, the window powers down about an inch, and when u close it, it powers back up to seal properly. makes it easier to close the door too

 

E30 M3 rules, but BMW service sucks ***.

 

come to los angeles and see "nick---can't say no---alexander" they'll take care of you...

 

Damn, you got me drooling thinking about that bad-*** E30 M3. If I ever stop by in England, hope you can give me a ride around a track. I love E30 M3!