If the answer is yes, please (in a few sentences) tell my why you have it, is it a popular class, and do you think it is a good thing for the club.

If the answer is no, then the same questions apply.

Also, what are your feelings ("good" or "bad" will suffice) about a tire exclusion list for a street tire class (with the usual suspects being excluded).

My answers:

Yes, we have a tire class, and I think it is working well. It acts a low pressure dumping ground for many that *never* aspire for greatness, and also serves as a nice "minor league" for those that do want to win.

I think an exclusion list (beyond the 140 treadwear limit rating) is a bad idea.

Scott

 

NO

I also think it is a bad idea. If you want to run street tires join STS/STX and you can even have more fun with your car. I wouldn't even want to run on street tires in a stock car. It wouldn't be that much fun to me unless it was a BS/AS car and then if you can afford one of those types of cars you can most likely afford r-tires.

To me street tire stock classes just sound like a way for the people who don't want to spend money to win. I don't have much money either but there are still cheap ways to race.

 

Not beyond STS/STX. We get a full grid without it (200+ cars per event).

I don't like the idea for the same reason I don't like STS/STX - the tire wear rule is unenforcable as written (and I can't think of an easily enforcable rule to replace the current version). That, and as mentioned, R-tires are more fun.

 

Here also not beyond STS/STX.

If you run in an SCCA club, and that club wants to implement a tire exclusion beyond what is currently in the rules should not happen. Why? Those that do want to run nationally will be handicapped because they want to win the class, but get bumped out becuase of an excluded tire.

However on the flip side, they could always run in a different class (like SP or whatnot) and just be handicapped locally. Then in a nationals level auto-x, would be classed according to nationals rules.

A tire exclusion list for nationals is just a bad idea, for now, until Hoosier starts putting treadware 140 on their tires. The current crop of street tires are not equal or close to R-Compounds. They show some of the same attributes of some R-compounds, but they lack the 'total package' of an R-Compound.

--kC




Modified by KC at 11:52 AM 11/14/2003

 

one of the local clubs here has a street tire class that is indexed depending on what you drive. i dunno why they do it, but a few people like to be in there.

 

Wow. Didn't know so many people disliked it for one reason or another.

Reasons why I like it:
-Good "introductory" class.
-Street tires are cheap
-Street tires a better to learn the sport on
-Don't need to change tires when I get there
-Don't need to change tires to get home
-I can beat a guy in a Vette (did that)
-I can lose to a guy in a Metro (did that too)

Matt<--1st time I drove on track with Kumhos, decided auto-x was a waste of good R-compound tires....

 

In the San Francisco Region, we have an indexed street tire class and it's very popular. During our regular 16 event season, we averaged 233 entrants with street tire averaging 14 entrants (SM and STS were the next largest at 13 each).

Does it help the club? Sure, I think it gives people a place to go once they progress beyond our novice classes (you can only run street tires in novice class, so once you are no longer a novice, you can either get race tires and go play in the open class, or not get race tires and run in street tire).

An exclusion list is probably a bad idea. I'm guessing the Azenis and KD's are the prime candidates for being on this list, right? If both tires were unaffordable and only came in a few select sizes, then I could see an argument for an exclusion list.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone (and for keeping it civil). Our club is debating PAX classes and street tire class in general right now, and there are two sides that don't seem able to find common ground.

To put it in perspective though, we have about 120 drivers at every event (average), and of those, we have nearly 40% distributed in Novice class (a pax class) or Tire class (a Pax class). The concern from some people is that open classes are just too thin.

Our official rule for novices is that if you trophy you are out of the class, and after 3 (or 4?) novice events you are out (that all contributes to a bigger street tire class).

Scott

 

It was pretty cool outPAXing a Z06 with a bone stock WRX at the last NASA event I ran with a street tire class a while back...

VMSC had an "X" class that was as I recall, first a novice class, then became a street tire class, with the intent being for novices to run in it. That was fine for a while, then it got a little out of hand when practiced drivers started setting up cars for the class. Novices/"street driver" cars were outclassed anyways by cars on uber-street tires driven by good drivers, and the Open classes were undersubscribed. By axing the street tire class, i think we gave novices back a fair place to play, and pushed other drivers to compete in Open classes.

 

In New England, we have 2 novice classes that last the year. We have Novice prepared, and Novice Stock. They run for year end championships also (Novice Stock Champ and Novice Prepared). They run with their respective class in the heats, but at the end of the class.

If you do more than 4 events in one year, the following year you're no longer novice. You can retain your novice status for a year (season) Thing is, some novices only come to a few events a year. It helps the novices get a feel for the club, and decide if they want to do a full season next year (open) or whatnot... without forcing them into an olpen class. Most like that. They still run with the open class, but don't have to worry about getting whacked in open because they're really going against other novices for the day.

IMHO about your program. if they trophy, they're the best of the new guys... but that still doesn't mean they're immediately open material.

 

CCR runs a street tire class, all classes are open to run except sts/stx. They just throw a T on the class designation, and are paxed against other street tired cars.

 

Houston Region has Street Touring classes (STA-STF for normal Street Touring allowed mods, STU [U=unlimited] for more major class modifications [Forced induction allowed, unlimited wheel width allowance, free brake upgrades, etc...]) which work pretty well for a lot of people. I run the Tacoma in STF and have a blast going against the somewhat modified Foci, MP5's, Honda Civics and others. No Exclusion list except for DOT race tires not being allowed. The street touring classes are fun to run in and very competitive.

Here's a link to the Houston Region Street Tire page... http://www.houscca.com/solo2/H...g.pdf

 

What about this compromise....
Instead of one or more street tire classes, how about having adding a "street-tire" check box to the registration. These entrants still compete within their normal class and for the regular class points.

At the end of the day, when results are printed, you could draw out the "street tire" entries and print a PAX indexed result. DC region currently does this for lady entrants and prints an overall PAX result as well. The "street tire" rank doesn't count towards anything, other than weekly bragging. Lack of trophy and championship would force the most competitive into normal classes. But those occasional drivers or novices have another measure of their skill that may prove more useful than simply getting crushed in their normal class.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smokin rubber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CCR runs a street tire class, all classes are open to run except sts/stx.</TD></TR></TABLE>

??? Not getting that one line.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

??? Not getting that one line. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It makes sense to exclude the STS/STX cars from running in an indexed street tire class because their index already factors in the fact that they're on street tires, while the other classes are indexed based on race tires.

We have the similar rule in SFR. STS and STX are not necessarily prohibited from running in street tire, but they get a much more difficult index.

 

In CalClub (L.A. region), we have 2 street-tired stock classes now. They're indexed based on the Stock class index. SK1 is for cars that run in SS, AS, BS, and FS. SK2 is for cars in CS, DS, ES, GS, and HS. Next year, there maybe 3 street-tired stock classes. And at our monthly meeting, I verbally proposed to our Rules Committe the following classes: SK1 - SS, AS, and FS; SK2 - BS, CS, and ES; SK3 - DS, GS, and HS. I think these classes are good for introductory to auto-x for those who have bone stock cars. But for those who have modded their cars before learning about auto-x, tough luck for them. They would have to either run in their repective SP classes (on street tires) or STS/STX (some cars aren't legal to run in STS/STX), or SM.

 

I've been pondering starting one locally, but only for selfish reasons. I don't have the money to race as much as I do on race rubber. Since we also usually have fairly small turnouts (&lt;100), we probably wouldn't have a huge turn-out, but we do have a fairly large contingent of Street Mod legal cars that have street tires, so I think it'd be a good place for those guys to run, instead of against the more serious drivers with really setup cars there.

I can see a benefit of just allowing some of the guys who get depressed by losing by 3 seconds to national drivers in much much better prepared cars. These guys aren't half bad, but unless they see themselves as being able to compete, they'll never get "serious" like most of us are. Blah....end ramble.

 

Minnesota has a street tire version of every stock class by adding a T to the end of the class. Only for stock class. out of 100 cars, we average only 4 in stock class with autocross tires, the rest in stock are all on street tires.

 

All we basically have is a street tire class...well not exactly. Your classed by scca rules, but with only 30 or so cars we classify them into street tire and race tire class.

I like being in seperate classes but then again going against 20 or so cars is funner than going against 5.

 

we have stu: street tire unlimited

free engine mods and suspension as long as its on street tires.

 

I race in a local club ( http://www.dcscc.com ) that has a street tire class for every class, if there are people to run in it. We do not have an STS/STX class, just a more multi level indexed Street mod class structure, with available Street tire/street mod classes. The Detroit region SCCA also has Street tire classes over and above ST classes available. You'd be suprised at how few people want to drive on race tires on Michigan roads. Also, as everyone knows, Michigan people are too fat and lazy to change tires at events

I personally like it. Falkens are much cheaper than race tires

 

we (FLR) offer the Road Tire / RT class/pax for almost any class.

this allows guys with somewhat modded cars to race in their 'proper' class and use Azenis or similar tires if they have not spent the money for a second set of wheels and tires.


I love the idea because most of those guys are driving their daily driver cars, and to me that is what autocross is all about, learning to control your car... and what better car to learn with than the one you spend 100% of the time driving!? Also, like me they have spent thousands on modifications and dont want to drop the extra, say... $400 for Rotas and $600 for Hoosiers = $1000 for the 4 total seconds we get to race once a month.... its not a great money per time-useage expense compared to the other mods that I use every day during my daily driving and deliveries and jaunts around town. there are guys that bought a car and dotn have any more money either.. no more for another set of wheels with slicks, since the car tapped out their wallets... but at least if they can compete in even a stock class and not be trounced by a guy who had $1000 or so for the Rcompounds.

I like the RT class/pax and it seems to help some guys make more events since their season is cheaper, maybe its easier to get the wifey to apporve of an entire sunday of racing if its cheaper?