First pics, just back from the fabricator...

Rally-legal gussets throughout



The entire cage was tacked in on top of box structures, which were knocked down so the tops of all upper joints could be welded. The entire deal was then raised back up and the boxes reassemebled underneath. Very clever...



Detail of optional 7th and 8th pickups



This tells the whole door bar story: The tubes are right against the door card, it is NOT particularly hard to get in and out, and I can still work the window winders - very handy for rallying! Check the load path from the top of the A-pillar... :D



Enter here. Clearance at the steering wheel is not huge but should be workable. It's no closer than it was on the Autopower bolt-in in the Renault Cup car, I don't think...



Chris Schimmel in Hillsborough, NC did the work. VERY nice welds and joint fitment.

K

 

Very Very Nice!

 

seems like your fabricator is rather weld happy... ah pun intended.

why did you opt not to add a dash bar, unless its hidden in the pics.

 

Is that a GTI-VR6?

 

Kirk just curious... whats the signifigance of these here:



And why no supports from the rear mounts to the bottom of the main hoop? (poorly represented but i hope you get the idea)

 

the longer vertical top is to provide a vertical support, in case it rolls. the lower one below the horizontal doorbar that you circled just further supports it.

 

word... i didnt know it needed to be supported.

 

Tyson's right on with those little stubby things - the carry the downward load in compression rather than putting the door bar in a bending load. We couldn't put that additional diagonal in - your red line, RJ - because the rear seat is in the way. (Remember it's a SSC car for now.) That will be one of the first additions - that and a roof diagonal when the sunroof comes out - when it makes its evolution to IT status in two seasons.

K

EDIT - the dashbar question got set aside for now because I wanted to minimize the impact on the dash assembly at this point. I DID discover that aboout 50 pounds of the difference between a MkII and MkIII GTI (this is a 2.0, BTW) is in the form of a gigantic fabricated monster that crosses above the front passengers' knees. We had to holesaw and torch through it for the A-pillar legs so there is actually a de facto dash bar in there - and it's freakin' huge.


Modified by Knestis at 1:43 AM 11/13/2003

 

Looks nice Kirk. It's nice to finally see this come together for you.

 

I'm actually on the phone with the cage builder right now complimenting him on his work

 

Kirk,
The second shot showing the seatbelt is just for show, right? It won't actually be used, I hope.

All other parts of the cage look awesome!

 

I haven't taken the stock belts out yet because most of them are supposed to stay in...

K

 

Das ist gut!

 

Kirk,

Looks great. You'll have to tow out and visit us .


Rick

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I haven't taken the stock belts out yet because most of them are supposed to stay in...

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

...per SS rules I assume. Makes sense.

 

if i pad it like this, will it be safe to drive on the street without a helmet?





on a serious note, can i ask why the headliner is still in? after reading numerous other posts on the subject over the years, i was under the impression that a custom job such as yours would warrant removing the headliner and getting the cage as close to the roof as possible. is it so that, when you do remove the headliner, you'll have just enough room for the offset padding?

sweet work though. makes my autopower bolt-in four point look like monkey bars.

 

At what point does a tube become a gusset, or a gusset become a (not required) tube? I understand that all non-required tubing still must meet the min diameter/thickness requirement, and yet there is no such stipulation for "gussets."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruthless013 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a serious note, can i ask why the headliner is still in? after reading numerous other posts on the subject over the years, i was under the impression that a custom job such as yours would warrant removing the headliner and getting the cage as close to the roof as possible. is it so that, when you do remove the headliner, you'll have just enough room for the offset padding?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you read a few posts up, there's mention that it's a Showroom Stock car.

The cage looks good, too.

 

That's a very good rules-nerd question, Travis - one that I confess I never thought about. I had best prepare a defense, just in case...

K

 

I've seen several examples of Shimmel's work in person. Very, very well done...

BTW I just got off the phone with the triangulation shop. I tried to get some triangles for my cage, but they were all out. Said this guy with a VW came by and took all they had...


Modified by MaddMatt at 8:59 AM 11/13/2003

 

Real nice Kirk!

Can you comment on the seat and the fitment with the non-nascar bars on the driver's side. Did you mount the seat more inboard? I don't have nascar style bars and would like a couple extra inches between me and the door...

Nice seat BTW.

Greg



Modified by bulldog_RS20 at 10:09 PM 11/13/2003

 

That's an interesting conversation and reflects the decisions that I made, given the intended use of the car.

I wanted the seat to be on a slider so I went with the RECARO homologated piece. I've used others (the "universal" kind) and was a little concerned about their quality. I am a little disappointed in the height of the RECARO piece, however and may address that with some alternate side-mount adapters. It sits in line with the OEM seat.

Re: door bars, the issue that NASCAR-style bars ignore is that of absorbing energy. They are strong if done correctly, but kinetic energy in a car running broadside into another has to go somewhere. If there is nothing to attenuate that energy, it turns into lateral movement in the "target" car. Injury happens when - not if - the driver bounces off of the inside of the car door (or effectively, the nose of the "projectile" car). If door bars are made "soft" enough to bend and use up some of that energy, that's great but that is the line of last defense in the side-impact system: Using it as sacraficial structure seems a little odd.

I've done a couple of things to address this, the first being more seat than most people opt for. The SPG Racer is deeeep and the lateral head restraints are an obvious benefit. I have also left all of the stuff in the door - even the padded handles and door card - to serve as crushable structure. That girder that Chris built is then truly just preventing intrusion. The final step is going to be a comprehensive flat, rigid, padded panel that extends from the seat down to the floor at the driver's feet - probably in a composite or honeycomb, with non-resilient padding - a la Winston cup seats.

I've frankly never been convinced that a layer of door sheetmetal and tubes 5" away from the driver is safer than what I have decided to do but I'd certainly hear the case again, from a physics perspective rather than a "everyone does it" point of view.

It is also a consideration - albeit a lesser one - that the car will see limited rally use. The windows need to be there and the door cards are nice, too.

K

PS - Chris has a jig to make those "taco" gussets (the folded metal ones). We opted for tubular gussets where the joints are not planar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW I just got off the phone with the triangulation shop. I tried to get some triangles for my cage, but they were all out. Said this guy with a VW came by and took all they had...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ha!

 

the question of the day is how much did you spend on the kool cage..
tony
sm 140

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the question of the day is how much did you spend on the kool cage..</TD></TR></TABLE>

My guess is "Probably not as much as you would think."

Shimmel's work is not only excellent, it is also quite reasonable...