.. after installing the ST 19mm rear sway bar.

I haven't yet installed the front 25mm one because I wanted to see how the car drives. (stock front sway is 22 mm) It feels fairly neutral on long sweepers and neutral throttle. Releasing the throttle tightens the line. On tight corners in low gears, abrupt throttle lift makes the tail hang out. On faster corners in higher gears, the effect is less lurid and more of a tightening of the line. (ES100 tires are very progressive)

Here are the mods on my '97 HX, stock motor:

- Koni yellows - ride height front is 1.25" below stock, rear is 1" below stock.
- H&R OE Sport springs in front, Neuspeed Sofsports in back (long story)
- Konis are adjusted full soft in front, 1/2 turn from full soft in back (adjusted for best freeway big bump ride comfort)
- stock front 22mm sway, 19mm ST rear sway
- Yokohama ES100 tires on factory lightweight 14" alloys
- Front upper control arms swapped for more caster
- Front lower control arm rear bushing upgraded to Superpro increased-caster poly bushings
- front toe-out 1mm per side
- ES steering rack bushings and shifter bushings
- Si shock tower bar


Now I'm thinking that installing the ST front sway bar will just bring the car back to understeer. Any thoughts?

Anyone else NOT use a matched set of sways?

 

Installing the thicker front sway bar will undo the oversteer that you gained. Most FWD autocross cars don't upgrade the front sway bar, some go smaller or remove it.

 

any pics?

 

i am one of the few who actually prefers the larger front bar. I have the exact same ST sway bars you have, and it works great for me. of course, i also have stiffer springs.

 

What pics would you like?

 

Carl,

Could you give more detail why you prefer a larger front sway? And what's your whole setup?

PS Why am I still a "Trial User"?

 

I have the set too. I like the way both bars work together. I'm running 300f/425r spring rates on GC coilovers, 13 x 9 RS wheels, 5" backspacing, and Hoosier bias ply's. I am planning on higher spring rates though. Probably 400f/600r when I have shocks that can handle them. When I do that I will probably remove the front bar because that sucker is heavy!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason C SBB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What pics would you like?</TD></TR></TABLE>

pics of your wheel well and all the suspension mods. You're a "trail user" until you change your avatar yourself.

 

i have a 94 integra set up for scca solo2's STS

koni sports
carerra coil-over sleeves
eibach ERS springs 380lbs front 450 lbs rear

keep in mind i'm an autoXer through and through. my car will never see track time because it's simply not set-up for the track.

the big front sway bar comes in real handy for quick transitions. my car is perfect through slaloms and anything involving quick right-left/left-right transistions. does it push more than if i were to use a smaller bar? probably, but that's real easy to drive around. i just can't stress how valuable that big front bar is for autoX. even if you have an open diff. no front bar is a band-aid fix to a larger problem, and i hate the way honda's feel with no front bar. the feel loose and all wallowy up front. not too confidence inspiring.

 

What size bars do you have?

I've driven my car with the sways only a few days, tried ripping around corners. The competence of the car surprises me. My objectives are to have a competent, fun-to-drive street car that's still reasonably comfy. It doesn't feel as "sharp" as my 2000 Miata with its factory sport suspension, and it can't power overseteer, but it's fun nevertheless. I'm quite pleased

 

25mm front 19mm rear

 

both carl and solox run these large front bar setups. must be an sts thing. i run SM in a 94 hatch, and i use my trusty crusty stock 21mm civic bar up front. works for me. but then again, i am on race tires, wheras they are on (most likely) azenis.

 

i dont run a front bar either. its my understanding that a front bar would make th car understeer and induce more wheelspin at corner exit (yes, i can make wheelspin now )

-spenc

 

so if wheelspin is a problem up front you put more compression in and take some rebound out. run stiffer front springs.

i dunno, i have more power than the 89-91 Si's and even nates VTEC-yo! but i have never really encountered inside wheelspin, except in the wet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont run a front bar either. its my understanding that a front bar would make th car understeer and induce more wheelspin at corner exit (yes, i can make wheelspin now )

-spenc</TD></TR></TABLE>

funny thing about that. the only time (other then extreme cold/rain) i've experienced wheelspin was when i had no front swaybar.

here's the deal. a front swaybar won't make your car understeer anymore then if you painted your car gold. the bar itself isn't responsible for the understeer, there is always something else involved.

nate

 

but nate, the accepted honda set-up is no front bar? who are we to buck the trend

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

here's the deal. a front swaybar won't make your car understeer anymore then if you painted your car gold. the bar itself isn't responsible for the understeer, there is always something else involved.

nate</TD></TR></TABLE>

Could you please elaborate on this some more.
I would really like to learn about this, as it goes against just about everything i have ever read or heard on this subect.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason C SBB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.. after installing the ST 19mm rear sway bar.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just picked up a set of ST sway bars for my 99 civic hatch, did you do any reinforcment of the subframe?

BTW, do you have a copy of the install instructions? I am missing the front install sheets.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the only time (other then extreme cold/rain) i've experienced wheelspin was when i had no front swaybar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

bah... hey nate, come to mod class. i experience wheel spin in the pits...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
bah... hey nate, come to mod class. i experience wheel spin in the pits... </TD></TR></TABLE>
your car...... scares me...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could you please elaborate on this some more.
I would really like to learn about this, as it goes against just about everything i have ever read or heard on this subect.</TD></TR></TABLE>

there are a myriad number of things that can cause a car to understeer. insufficient front negative camber, excessive rear negative camber, insufficient rear roll stiffness, excessive rear toe-in, excessive front toe-out, driver input, etc. each element must be examined to determine which is the culprit and to what degree. it baffles me how everyone looks at the front swaybar as the #1 cause of understeer and completely ignore the whole picture.

nate

 

takoe,

The ST rear sway came with a plate that sits under its D-brackets. I fabbed another pair to sit the D-brackets a bit further rearward to keep the ends of the swaybars from fouling the brackets that hold the hard brake lines to the shock struts. I also used larger washers than supplied for the inside of the subframe sheet metal. Do you think that'll be enough? I love to drive corners hard and squeal the tires...

If you can wait til tonight I can email you a jpg of the front sway instructions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason C SBB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...I love to drive corners hard and squeal the tires...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i've been letting those comments slide, but now i think something should be said. i _really_ hope you aren't testing your car on public roads. testing the handling limits of your car should be kept to the track.

nate

 

I've also been wondering where all this "testing" has been occuring... because i dont know of many mid-week autocross events.

 

I knew someone was gonna bring this up. C'mon, you guys don't squeal your tires in big near-empty parking lots, or around familiar corners or U-turns or off-ramps with lotsa room and in which you can see in all directions that there's noone around? It's easy to do at low speeds. ES100's on 14" rims are so forgiving, I can get some slip angles out of them and be quite far from their ultimate grip.. BTW I had a friend's Azenis shod car for a week and no, I wasn't able to squeal 'em on public roads, they had too much grip.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason C SBB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I knew someone was gonna bring this up. C'mon, you guys don't squeal your tires in big near-empty parking lots, or around familiar corners or U-turns or off-ramps with lotsa room and in which you can see in all directions that there's noone around? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually no... my daily commute is rather mundane and boring. I go to the track and/or autocross events to get my entertainment.

Although i do drive a saturn, so i dont know how my commute could be anything other than mundane... cant be worse than a civic though.