i'm just curious why alot of people choose not to use vtec on their set ups, is it PURELY a matter of cost? or does vtec have some sort of gremlins in it that people dont want to bring up?

with a mini-me on the other hand, people will always get the vtec first? what gives?

just want to hear some arguments from the non-vtec people who as far as i know build some respectable engines.

 

At least you spelled vtec correctly. I would use the search function and read as much about engines, and swaps, as possible. Engines come vtec or non-vtec from the factory and people modify them to suit their needs. Cost is just one factor.

 

Sometimes is money issues, sometimes it depends on setup. Lots of people like to use the non-vtec head on turbo motors because non-vtec heads don't have as much valve overlap. Meaning not as much boost is escaping out the exhaust valves befor it closes. As far as all motor VTEC would be better (on the street). I perfer the vtec head because they flow better. You can always disable VTEC. As far as putting VTEC heads on the stock non-vtec block the gains are not as good as if the compression was bumped/building the block. Also about the B20 vtec. The OEM pistons valve reliefs need some grinding so the valves don't colide with the pistons (especially with big cams). So to build a quality frankenstein it cost some dough.

 

maybe people don't do it because they are true to their motors. what i mean is that, they are proud not to have a vtec motor. pride in onwership.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BeerMan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At least you spelled vtec correctly. I would use the search function and read as much about engines, and swaps, as possible. Engines come vtec or non-vtec from the factory and people modify them to suit their needs. Cost is just one factor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

please, dont be an *******, i read plenty, about swaps, engines, and vtec, ohh thanks for pointing out that i spelled it correctly.

what i dont know, and what i asked, is WHY people choose to not put on a vtec head, because i dont see a downside to it, at all. And i DID use search, all you get it is HOW to do it, with WHAT to do it, and comparisions, but never WHY, and it seems to me you dont know either, i'm just trying to get a discussion going here.

and about the overlap, i guess that could be a point, but then again you can get custom ground cams anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by torr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe people don't do it because they are true to their motors. what i mean is that, they are proud not to have a vtec motor. pride in onwership.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that would hold true for the integra folks, but what about people swaping in b20's or modding their D16's, or even those that swap in b18b's into civics, if your gonna swap a motor, your already not holding true to "ownership",

 

contrary to popular belief, VTEC is not all mighty.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haberdasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">contrary to popular belief, VTEC is not all mighty.
</TD></TR></TABLE>



VTEC technology itself, on b-series is more for idle/streetability than pure performance.

 

X 1,000,000

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



VTEC technology itself, on b-series is more for idle/streetability than pure performance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

now we are getting somewhere, can u please elaborate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haberdasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">contrary to popular belief, VTEC is not all mighty.


</TD></TR></TABLE>
Comparing the two stock for stock it is. Racing is a whole different ballgame.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 7thGear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

now we are getting somewhere, can u please elaborate</TD></TR></TABLE>

the most logical explanation for people doing LS/B20 VTEC engine setups is to make more power & torque. Obviously LS & B20's have more torque output than any stock B-series VTEC engine does, because of the stroke an LS & B20 blocks have.

Another side of this would be $$$ factor. Some LS & B20 engine owners don't wanna spend $$$ on a full blown DOHC VTEC engine swap, so they go with a 'cheaper' route and buy only the parts they need to convert their LS/B20 engines to VTEC.

For people who choose not to convert to VTEC, well that's just up to the person's preference -- if they wanna stay in the stone age, so be it . Now B-series parts are almost double the cost of SOHC VTEC parts, that's probably why more mini-me people go the VTEC route vs. the non-VTEC DOHC crowd.

There's nothing wrong with non-vtec engines (for some), but there is a limit you can reach with non-vtec engines and adding VTEC components to a non-vtec engine eliminates that limit. The problem is, going beyond the non-vtec limit can have its prices to pay as non-vtec parts (mainly LS/B20 crankshafts) can't handle/aren't designed to handle high revs like a true DOHC VTEC engine can, but there are ways around the faultyness of non-vtec cranks.

IMO, VTEC is a candidate for being almighty. Look at all of the fast Honda cars these days -- are a majority of them non-vtec? More power to the non-vtec building engine peeps who are just as fast or faster than VTEC built engine peeps (a rare breed tho).


Modified by Katman at 4:17 PM 10/29/2003


Modified by Katman at 4:19 PM 10/29/2003

 

, now i wanna see a rebuke from the die hard non-vtec followers.

 

I am a non-VTECer and like many on this website i am on a college budget so a 2000 DOLLAR head swap doesnt even come to mind.
I love my LS swap
Given it doesnt have a 10000 rpm limit but it shure does make for a fun ride
I just take the non vtec route because it is a challenge and it makes for a suprise when you stomp a gsr or other swaps.
By all means I would call it pride because, like it was said before, non vtec rollers are a rare breed because of all of the vtec swap popularity

The thing I hate is when someone asks what you have done to your car and once they discover that it is a LS they act like it is a pice of ****. In all reality I think non vtecers should get more props because they have to work harder to make their cars as fast and they seem to get the job done quite effectively.

To me it is pride and wanting to do something different

 

California doesn't allow you to put vtec heads on non vtec blocks?

 

Yes you can get to a certin point and the vtec engines are designed for much higher reving and stress than the non-vtec blocks. But again this is more to do with how the engines are designed than VTEC itself.

The rod/stroke ratio, internal strength, oil squirters, etc, are all what makes the B18C's stronger in terms of NA.. not vtec itself.

Which is why you see companies like toda getting to a point where they have cams that actually disable vtec since it simply adds weight.

Compaired to what most people do with their all motor vtec engines, you can get a b20 nonvtec to be very competitive running an aggresive cam (such as crower 404/405s).

Its always going to be a different method of attack, more torque rather than higher reving.

vtec itself is all about idle and streetability, its how the engines are built around vtec that makes the difference.

 

cool cool, now i see, gud stuff


side note, 404 and 405 is that the part number? cuz a circle doesnt have a cirumfrence of more than 360 degrees

 

Yup, part number...62404 and 62405A are Crower Cams.

I am keeping my B20 non-VTEC because I like how people underestimate honda's without VTEC. I don't like my car having too much attention drawn to it...hehe. Plus I love the torque...I had a SOHC VTEC engine before and it was not bad...just took forever to get into the power band.

non-VTECs are easier to wire up as well...not that it's DIFFICULT to wire VTEC however...hehe

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I like how people underestimate honda's without VTEC
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. Who expects an RS with boltons to break 14s in the 1/4? No one, which is why it surpises them

 

..something I left out regarding how VTEC can be 'almighty'.....
other car manufacturers have mimicked VTEC in their own way for most of their newer cars such as BMW's VANOS, Toyota's VVTi, and others. So VTEC or makes thereof is the wave of the future. Actually the (vtec) future is here already.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haberdasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">contrary to popular belief, VTEC is not all mighty.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is so! At least that's what the bandwagon told me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes you can get to a certin point and the vtec engines are designed for much higher reving and stress than the non-vtec blocks. But again this is more to do with how the engines are designed than VTEC itself.

The rod/stroke ratio, internal strength, oil squirters, etc, are all what makes the B18C's stronger in terms of NA.. not vtec itself.

Which is why you see companies like toda getting to a point where they have cams that actually disable vtec since it simply adds weight.

Compaired to what most people do with their all motor vtec engines, you can get a b20 nonvtec to be very competitive running an aggresive cam (such as crower 404/405s).

Its always going to be a different method of attack, more torque rather than higher reving.

vtec itself is all about idle and streetability, its how the engines are built around vtec that makes the difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

werd

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by torr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe people don't do it because they are true to their motors. what i mean is that, they are proud not to have a vtec motor. pride in onwership.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so then that would make you not one of those people torr?

 

whatever....VTEC is fun...I would rather have a VTEC than a non VTEC turbo. Whats sad is when a VTEC NA beats a nonVTEC turbo.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by That Dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whatever....VTEC is fun...I would rather have a VTEC than a non VTEC turbo. Whats sad is when a VTEC NA beats a nonVTEC turbo.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

you know what else is fun? Someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

You are probably referencing to VTEC as in the high rpm power. What you don't know is that VTEC has nothing to do with how high you can rev. You can make a non-vtec cam profile rev just as high as a vtec profile, it will just have terrible low-end and idleability.