For those interested in the specific items the SEB has concern with in STX which are keeping them from making (or recommending) STX become a full national class, I've forward the list of items just sent to me from Mark Sipe.

I'm assuming the STAC is actively working to address these as we speak...
_________________________________________________

Since outstanding STS rule issues cannot be addressed until the 2005 season, STX will have a complete stand-alone set of rules *if* submitted by the SEB and approved by the BoD for 2004. Currently we are working to achieve this, I only say *if* because the progress is ongoing and not a done deal yet. The intent would be to align the STS category wide rules and drop back to the reduced subset of STX-only rules in 2005.


17. Vehicle Eligibility
Automatic ST vehicle eligibility is a concern. Needs refinement &
defining.

17.1 AWD & Turbo progression from STS to STX
Tabled for the 2005 season, has not been submitted for member
feedback.

17.2.E Bodywork/tire clearance
Typos need correcting, possible rewording to correct fully

17.2.F Aftermarket bodywork
Too broad. Requires refinement & defining.

17.5.A Bumpstops
Allows for shock bumpstop mods but not chassis/suspension
bumpstops. Consider aligning with SP 14.8.B suspension wording.

17.8.E Camber kits
Too broad, allows complete substitution/redesign of entire
suspension system. Requires limitations and defining.

17.10.B Air induction systems
define limitations, NA vs forced induction

17.10.D.1 ABS
Possible wording refinement required. Is ABS considered part of
traction control? ABS mods allowed?

17.11.6 STX Exhaust mods
possible wording refinement, define limitations

17.11.7 STX motor mounts
Addressed in FastTrack

17.11.8 STX seats
addressed in FastTrack

17.11.9 Unlimited brake allowance
Too broad. Requires limitations & definitions

 

Cool, thanks.

 

Just curious, but I know a LOT of people are trying to keep FWD Civics and the like from entering STX. Are such cars going to be omitted from the class and kept in STS only?

The reasoin I ask is I was planning on running FSP with my Civic for the next thousand years, but with a baby on the way, I simply can't do the multiple sets of Hoosiers per year thing. So I went to STX where a set of Azenis will keep me racing even when baby arrives... I just enjoy the Quaife too much to take it out!

I hope I'm not excluded because I'm trying to be financially responsible and yet still be able to partake in this great sport... Regardless of the unwarranted fears of some 3000+ lb. AWD turbo car owners...

Remember, I'm slow.

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

Huh? Maybe you have a perception of AWD fearing civics... but that's not really the case. I did try make a point one time that if Civics can come to STX, then WRXs should be able to go to STS. (And someone said... well take off the turbo and stuff). The point I was trying to make was lost and I gave up.

Then I tried another angle of Civics already have a class. If ST is going to be a 'category' then cars should not be able to jump between STS and STX and other classes. Just liek they cannot in classes in stock or in classes in SP.

That's all I was trying to say.

 

I personally don't think any Civic has a shot of winning STX.

Owning both a STS Civic and a STX car, I know which one is faster--and that's my STX ITR.

ST Civics just don't have enough power to go with the good handling.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason I ask is I was planning on running FSP with my Civic for the next thousand years, but with a baby on the way, I simply can't do the multiple sets of Hoosiers per year thing. So I went to STX where a set of Azenis will keep me racing even when baby arrives.... I just enjoy the Quaife too much to take it out!

I hope I'm not excluded because I'm trying to be financially responsible and yet still be able to partake in this great sport...

Anthony "Mario" Crea</TD></TR></TABLE>


These were my main points gentlemen.

That's all.

Winning in Topeka isn't a concern as I may never may it out there due to a great, but overly-realistic, Principal who may retire, and the person tapped for his job will definitely keep us under tight wraps the first few years as she will have something to prove to the Superintendent.

But I may reconsider FSP just so I don't have to keep hearing this BS on each board I visit. And remember, I said unwarranted, so I wasn't pompous and cocky in a false belief that my car would beat any proper STX car... But a Top 5 at a National Tour somewhere would be nice I guess!

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

Nothing against STS cars, but I guess I don't see the need of allowing STS cars + mods into STX. The next step up, to me, is SP or SM.

But then again, no one knows what is going to happen to ST in a few years. I'd love to see it structured like SP, but maybe two classes are good enough. I also don't see the need of 2wd two seaters having a ST class.

But from all accounts that I've heard, it will remain as-is for a little while with rules tweaks on the board for next year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also don't see the need of 2wd two seaters having a ST class.</TD></TR></TABLE>I guess you also don't see the need for non-turbo 2WD cars over 5.0L having an ST class either. Just because you don't own a vehicle in either of those subsets doesn't mean there isn't a "market" for such a class. I'm not ready to step all the way up to ESP, but it would be nice to get away from the cost of replacing some of the stock components with OE parts, and ease into the SP class through an ST intermediate.

Alas, 5.7L is just a tad over the max. Not like it would actually make a difference with the tire width rules, but it's still not legal.

Karen

 

It just seems that a few minority folks want a ST class for "their" car. If it is that important, then write your letters and show up at the events when/if a class gets invented for your particular application.

But again, let's say we went to AST, BST, CST, etc. How many more classes do we need to add until everyone is happy? A Camaro, in my eyes, is competitive in Stock (FS), Street Prepared (ESP) and Prepared (CP). How many of the top STS/STX cars can say the same thing? None. I guarantee you that if all ST cars made good SP cars, ST would not see the same following as it does now.

I'm just against adding more classes if we don't have to. If you can fit a car into what we already have, then fine. And I don't see Camaros, regardless of displacement, being a huge threat in STX as it stands. Who knows.

 

Kill SP. Merge them into ST. If they want race tires, they go to Prepared.. and can do more stuff.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A Camaro, in my eyes, is competitive in Stock (FS), Street Prepared (ESP) and Prepared (CP). How many of the top STS/STX cars can say the same thing?</TD></TR></TABLE>Top STS cars : Civics (CSP... hmm... they seem pretty potent to me, maybe not quite as potent in HS since the arrival of the Minis though they can still do decently), Subaru Imprezas (DSP... well, only Steve Sulactyki &lt;sp?&gt; trophied, and Kriemelmeyer gave up on his, so... it's hard to say there, but GS is still does decently with the people who give it a chance), BMW 3-series (DSP... yeah, it's got some potential , HS (318), DS....).

Top STX cars : WRX (DS, ESP), BMW 3 series (again, HS, DS, DSP), ITR (DS... okay so it's outclassed in CSP).... even a non-top-STX car, the 305 TPI F-body does well in FS and ESP.

Does that shoot your argument all to hell yet? Oh, wait... I see the problem now.

Karen

 

Let me help you out Karen.

Top STS cars:

Neon
89-95 Civic
Subaru 2.5RS
Celica GT/GTS
Integra
BMW variants
Sentra SE-R

I don't see any of those cars burning up Stock or SP in their respective classes, except for the Celica in GS (which might explain why we haven't seen a good one in STS yet). And when I mean the car to have, I'm not talking about a trophy backmarker. Some cars trophy, but are still 4 seconds off of the lead. Only the Celica kicks butt in GS. The Civic is outclassed in HS and CSP, the 2.5, Integra and Neon are outclassed in GS and DSP. The BMW has a good showing in DS and DSP, but DSP = hybrid and I'm not sure if the DS car is legal for STS. SE-R = outclassed in GS and DSP.

STX top cars:
WRX
Integra R
Mini S
E30 M3
BMW variants

Let's see, the WRX is outclassed in DS and ESP, the ITR does well in DS but is outclassed in CSP, the Mini S is outclassed in GS and probably DSP. E30 M3 = outclassed in AS and CSP. Other BMWs, see above.

82+ Cambirds that could go to a ST class in the last few years:
FS winner
ESP winner
CP winner

Does that help? Why the Cambirds and Mustangs need yet another class to be a top contender in is beyond me. Same goes for the Vettes. As if SS, AS, ASP, BSP, SM2 and BP isn't enough already.

How about this: Let's take the trophy spots from STS/STX this year and last, add mods and go run their respective SP class. Do you see any of the 'cars to have' in the group? Maybe 2% of the total overall cars, but that's it.

But I agree that if you want to add more ST classes to the mix, do something with P and SP first. And I haven't even brought the SM category into the conservation.

We really don't need to add anymore classes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Let me help you out Karen.
Let's see, the WRX is outclassed in DS and ESP

How about this: Let's take the trophy spots from STS/STX this year and last, add mods and go run their respective SP class. Do you see any of the 'cars to have' in the group? Maybe 2% of the total overall cars, but that's it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We'll see next year.

 

No, you can't do well in ESP--hasn't anyone told you that yet? It would upset the domestic apple-cart too much!

 

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm looking forward to it.

I know this... I won't be the only one.

--kC