I've been thinking for a while that a WRX would make a great next car for me. But every time I go to an autox I wonder if it's really the right choice. Without looking I usually know a WRX is taking a lap just by listening to the tires scream. I think almost every WRX I've seen has under steered horribly.

Is this due to overdriving, poor handling, or is this the way AWD is supposed to operate? Those WRX guys must have lots of money for tires

 

SCCA's publication sportscar had a coverpage article on the driving/handling differences of an AWD, especially the WRX, a couple months ago. it should be recent, because its still sitting on top of my crapper. anyway, i think it basically said it will handle like a FWD but much harder to drive at its fastest and thus more difficult.

 

I honestly don't like the feeling of the WRX in the handling area. STI's are completely different...but I'll talk about WRX's first.

The initial turn in feels pretty responsive, but if you're not on the throttle, you are gonna push like a motha. Then, once you feel the need to pull out and use that AWD to your advantage, you step on the throttle and to me, being an NA guy, lags too much and by the time you're boosting to pull through the corner, it's too late and now you're pulling straight. I see people running them with the stock tires and they push worse than the FWD cars. Throw some decent tires and there and the hadling WILL improve tremendously. It's a completely different cr and takes adjusting to get it down right.

The STI on the other hand is just a blast to drive. My room mate just picked one up and I can't help but just have a blast every time I drive it. Haven't hit a course yet, but the daily commute is great. I love the turn in response, adjustable f/r differential ratios, and the susp[ension/tire setup.

I dunno...I'm not a car editor so I can't describe in incredible words why they're great or whatever....just gotta drive it and see what feels good

 

1) Stock tires for the WRX suck when it comes to dry handling. If the WRXs you have seen are on stock tires then the squealing is tire related.

2) WRX requires a different (and I would say more uncommon) mindset than FWD. Instead of going into a corner hot and getting the car to rotate, you go in slow and get on the power very early. This is hard for many people to adapt to (myself included)

3) In the right hands the WRX is only slighlty slower than a Type R on a Nationals level course.

4) The WRX is a practical car if you live in a snow area. It is also much less theft and vandalism prone than a Type R.

 

Wagons are faster. (Had to say it)

In stock, they have a bit of body roll and you have to wait for the car to settle before any other inputs can be given (if on stock suspension). Throw some Konis in there and you'll see a huge improvement in handling.

Then there's the stock tires... I drove mine off the lot on Kumho 712s they put on for me. No way in heck was I driving the car on the REs.

How to drive fast is a different mentality. I'm 'mentally different' so it was a match made in heaven. Heck.. who auto-xes a wagon anyways??? Keep in mind that AWD has nothing to do with handling, but all about power delivery. Someone earlier said that you need to keep the foot planted to turn.... sorry, I find the opposite to be true on the stock car. The WRX has lift-throttle over-steer. So you enter a corner hot, lift a bit, the weight transfers forward, lightens the rear, and the car rotates. (Lift, start rotating, floor it) If you stayed on the power, you have the one unweighted front wheel trying to pull you forward, and the rears pushing forward... trying to keep you in a straight line. Recipe for under-steer.

It takes a bit of getting used to, but really, it's like driving a FWD car with an open diff in the front, because there isn't one.

So revisiting the corner under power, you unload the inside front tire, and it'll light up and get all the power... the outside front will have none, and you'll get push again.. more so if the wheels turned and you have stock camber... you're now on the corner of the tire.

It just takes patience and practice. If you drive an open diff FWD car.. you should get the hang of it.

One other thing is on hard turns, you can lift/slow down but get on the throttle a bit earlier in the turn, let the boost build and when you're pointing where you need to go, boost should be available.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2) WRX requires a different (and I would say more uncommon) mindset than FWD. Instead of going into a corner hot and getting the car to rotate, you go in slow and get on the power very early. This is hard for many people to adapt to (myself included) </TD></TR></TABLE>

That’s a good one. Driving the talon I found the best way is to slow down enough in order to be able to get on the gas really early in the turn and not let off, which will shoot the car out of the turn. This only works well if a slow enough minimum speed is reached during the turn right when power is applied. Doing this feels like the car is stuck on rails as you power out at full throttle because it can hold the line while still accelerating so strong. The more I get used to this, the more impressed I am at exactly how well the car sticks on corner exit. However, driving the car with a more “momentum” mind set will have the front tires always right near maximum grip, so anything more than just a little power added will make the car understeer off line. Driving it this way feels like driving a heavy FWD car, and you’re forced to get on the gas quite late to avoid understeer. I’m pretty sure the WRX awd system is similar, but the talon’s awd first sends power to the front wheels before the rear. That’s why in the moment you get on the gas, the front tires need at this point to have a little buffer of grip available because initially the power will go to the front. The idea is for the front tires to be able to handle this initial burst of power while holding the line because moments later the transfer case starts feeding power to the rear. Once at this stage, it will feel like the car is on rails as it power out. This works only for driving long sweepers where most cars want to understeer by design, because regular momentum driving still works best everywhere else in places such as slaloms, chicanes, etc, where you try to go through with as little slowing down as possible.


Modified by Hracer at 11:44 AM 10/20/2003

 

WRX's own at ProSolo.....ask my how I know

 

I feel that th Evo handles way differently it takes the corners with no problems , which im sure its a bit different then the WRX . It has been said to out handle even the STi , My friend has the Evo is always a blast to drive the car . Im impress with the way the stock suspension how it performs and also the type of tires that it has stock. Im sure that tires make a huge difference , but at least the ones that come stock on the EVo which are Yokohama to there job great .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GokuSSJ4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I feel that th Evo handles way differently it takes the corners with no problems</TD></TR></TABLE>

As much as I like the EVO, I’m disappointed with its AWD system when compared to the STI’s. It has an open front diff with viscous center and rear diffs. That’s very similar to what some 95+ DSMs came with, if not identical (1Gs DSMs had no rear lsd). If our EVO only came with the awd system it has everywhere else in the world but here, it would be just perfect. The EVO’s excellent suspension and sticky tires may have a higher limit than most cars, but in a long constant sweeper it will reach the same terminal understeer. I have coil overs using konis on my talon with rear springs only 50lbs softer than fronts (relatively aggressive for these kinds of cars) and although it rotates very well in transitions and on corner entry, the car can be made to understeer pretty easily in a long constant turn if not careful. I was just pointing out an effective way to handle such understeer-prone situations.

 

Having had a DSM, and knowing others with auto-xed DSMs, (Fedja J.) The WRX is a different handling beast entirely in stock form. 1st off is the amount of suspension travel in a WRX is a bit longer vs a DSM. Weight transfer in a WRX takes longer for the car to settle than the DSM does. WRX steering is also a little be slower.

I'll probably be on R-Compounds next year for a few events in ESP, so I'll be able to do a back to back test of Street Tires (Falkens) vs Hoosiers.

The WRX, with it's power to the front, even in sweepers, you're going to be at the limit of adhesion to be fastest... a little more and you'll get push. This is the same with almost every other car too. If you're not at the limit, your times will suffer.

--kC

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyway, i think it basically said it will handle like a FWD but much harder to drive at its fastest and thus more difficult. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Quite the opposite actually. The better weight balance and having 4 drive wheels makes it quite a bit easier to drive and maintain on the limit.

Having spent a good amount of time on track with both a FWD honda and a WRX, I would say I am in a good position to compare the 2. The biggest difference is the weight distribution. With the honda having the entire engine plus transmission over the front axle, it is very nose heavy, harder to rotate and more prone to snap when it does rotate. The WRX has its motor more towards the rear of the engine compartment with the transmission under the driver and driveshaft/rear diff spreading the weight out more. This results in a more balanced car. On the whole however, the car still handles more similarly to FWD than RWD.

Any tire squealing and obvious push is usually just a setup or tire issue.

 

I've never driven a WRX, but spent an instructor session with Corey in a WRX - in the passenger seat. I can tell you first hand that the car will oversteer just fine with a little trail braking and will then pull sideways through the turn quite well indeed (Summit turn 10 - ask George ). I believe the car's only handling mod was a larger rear sway bar. Not sure of the tires used. Seems like the driving style has a lot to do with it...
From the passenger side, the car felt very composed, and more forgiving of the rear end coming out than any other FWD I've been it. I tend to concur with Evan.

 

IMO... what KC said above, lol.

As I was talking to PseudoRealityX the other night, he made a very good comment. A WRX is essentially a FWD car with potential for stronger corner exit. My point that I notice with novice drivers in the car is that they seem to get off corners very well (AWD+torque=weeehaaaa down the straightaway), but not notice that they are now shooting towards the next corner very quickly... and have 3000 pounds of car that they need to slow down and turn on stock RE-92s that have very poor braking grip at autocross pressures. I would say at least 90% of people who are new to WRXs make the car push a lot by overcooking corner entry. This makes for terminal understeer that's not pretty and eats tires for breakfast. At least compared to the stock ITR and ITR with 400f/500r springs that I've autocrossed, I found my car harder to drive on the edge than those two in dry conditions. My car tends to be pretty twitchy in Stock-class autocross trim, since that's about the only way to induce rotation on very sticky tires with the allowed suspension mods.

I did find my car very easy to drive at VIR, easy to modulate the car mid-corner with the throttle. Rotated pretty well for me when I needed it too. Good shocks=
Oddly enough, I rolled over the rear tires substantially more than the fronts, which usually NEVER happens at autocrosses.