Ok this may be one of those "worthless" topics that most people like to flame. But I've got a question that I feel is important enough to ask.

My life currently revolves around cars. I take the classes, look forward to working at Kragen (if they call back) and spend a considerable amount of time learning how to drive well and fixing my car up.

So in the end I see this all coming down to money. My question to you racers out there is how much have you spent on your cars, and how much (estimated) would a fairly well-built road race car cost? I'm not talking Indy 500 or anything but, road racing....with my Integra. In the parts I've got listed alone I am probably well over $8,000. I don't expect this to be cheap at all, but an idea as to how much I'll be putting into this car over the years would help me calculate things a lot easier.

Thanks guys/gals.

 

Racing can use up cubic dollars. On the Grand-Am Cup team I worked on (very low budget team compared to most others there) our budget was in the $15,000/weekend. And that does not even include the price of the car/trailer/tow vehicle/mods/paying off scrutineering etc etc. Usually, when you go racing, the car is the cheapest part. If you can barely afford the car and mods, you can't afford to go racing.

One of my favorite sayings..You want to make a small fortune racing?.....Start with a BIG one.

 

It depends largely on what series, class and what level of preparation.

A low budget Spec RX-7 will cost $5000 to build, or $3000 to buy used. An average ITA CRX or Spec Miata will cost $10,000 to build. A top notch Spec Miata or ITA CRX will cost $15,000-$20,000, depending on how much work you can do yourself. Anything remotely unlimited in nature will cost $20,000+ (unless you happen to be a master fabricator).

Those costs are purely build costs and do not include R&D at the track, driver development, consumables, etc. You probably won't listen, but sell your Integra and buy an old ITC car. Really. Talk to Catch-22 (Scott).

For references sake, I spent close to $15,000 my first year of racing (Spec RX-7). That included building a mid-pack car, driver's safety gear, doing some lapping days, two competition schools, and a season of regional racing.

The following season, I spent almost as much, even though I already owned the car (more consumables, alloy wheels, fresh engine, tires, etc).

My third season I got laid off, blew a motor, and haven't raced since. I don't regret any of what I did. I made many great friends. And I learned a lot about myself. I still love the track and instruct for NASA when they come through the DC area (VIR, Summit Point). Saving for a house/family/school and racing just don't mix too well. Maybe when I'm a bit older and settled (currently 26 and considering major career change) I'll race again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Usually, when you go racing, the car is the cheapest part. If you can barely afford the car and mods, you can't afford to go racing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Every1 thinking about racing needs to read the above a few hundred times.

 

Sport Compact Car did an article on how to race for $8,000, might want to check that out.

 

while i don't necessarily recommend it - I would suggest anyone thinking about racing to consider buying a car instead of building one. it's been said a bazillion times already. i've spent almost 10K on my ITA Civic Si. my friend and fellow HT member (who I will not mention at this moment) is about to purchase a comparable ITA car that is ready to run and has about as much done to the car as mine, but his will cost HALF the amount. HALF. think about it.

edit: I should say, I wouldn't go back and buy a car, I had a lot of fun and learned a ****-load building my car with the help of my father and friends

and I agree, it's not just the car costs, it's the costs to go race. racing once or twice every six months, that's one thing - but racing once or twice a month, it can hurt.


Modified by uncleben at 8:52 AM 10/17/2003

 

I would read what Crack Monkey said and take it well to heart. There's a great deal of good information there and from my perspective a very accurate look at the numbers. As for "the price of a race car?" Well, there are myriad adages about the high expense of racing ... there's a good reason for that. After you build the car you start spending the real money

 

Who was just selling their ITA CRX for like $4K? It was through an ebay deal, but the seller was an HT member, might want to look into it. As further evidence that buying a pre-built car will be cheaper, my brother and I are putting together an SR20-powered 240SX for a track car (no, not for drifting), and we've sort of written down all the parts prices, labor estimations for what we can't do (which isn't too much really), etc. We then found several pre-built cars to similar spec for like $3K less. None of them were local though, and engine quality was a concern, so we passed on them, but the opportunity was definitely there. Something to think about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Racing can use up cubic dollars. On the Grand-Am Cup team I worked on (very low budget team compared to most others there) our budget was in the $15,000/weekend. And that does not even include the price of the car/trailer/tow vehicle/mods/paying off scrutineering etc etc. Usually, when you go racing, the car is the cheapest part. If you can barely afford the car and mods, you can't afford to go racing.

One of my favorite sayings..You want to make a small fortune racing?.....Start with a BIG one.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I totally agree. Once the basic car is built, performance modifications to the car are usually one-time or very occasional costs that you can purchase at your leisure. What will really get you is the continuous stream of little things: Wheel bearings, damaged components, axles, windshields(!), brake pads, splitters, tires, travel costs, race gas, entry fees, and so on. Taken one at a time, they are not too bad, but try to run a season and they will quickly add up because it never ends.

Much better to drive in HPDE/time trials for a while to build up your driving skill and learn the ropes while saving money.

 

thats mine.. Check out ebay... I plan to move Africa and race VW polos.

So this ones got to go... Its 75% the way to a good ita car if you judge itby top running prices

 

Start with autocross. Its super cheap to run in the stock class. "super cheap" being a relative term. You can hone some good driving skills and gain knowledge. One piece of advice, resist the temptations of credit cards. Don't buy **** for your car if you have to buy it on credit.

 

i'm just under 7 grand for my spec miata..........but i'm not exactly competitive at this point.

AT BEST.......and i do mean AT BEST you can build a mid-pack spec miata for under 8. this is considering paying for 0 labor, a $2500 donor car with hardtop, and ALL parts purchased AT COST.

otherwise........plan for 10 grand for anything you're going to build. cars can be bought for thousands less though. spec miata is the ONLY place i've found it's cheaper to buy than build, and that won't last for long as there is getting to be a bunch of these things now.

 

I just started building my ITA civc Si. I didn't listen to all the people saying "buy one, buy one!" I would MUCH rather build my own because I believe that in itself will make you a better driver. I know it sound corny, but being one with the car goes a long ways in my mind. So I choose to start my driving relationship with my car from the ground up. Plus I just love wrenching! I have looked at other "prebuilt" cars and even in the photos I can realize that I would not like the car, simply becasue it is not ME. I know, i know, YES i will end up spending probably twice what I could have bought one for, but that is my choice and I will not regret one second of it!

BTW...I am $1500 deep and that is just the cage and the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just started building my ITA civc Si. I didn't listen to all the people saying "buy one, buy one!" I would MUCH rather build my own because I believe that in itself will make you a better driver. I know it sound corny, but being one with the car goes a long ways in my mind. So I choose to start my driving relationship with my car from the ground up. Plus I just love wrenching! I have looked at other "prebuilt" cars and even in the photos I can realize that I would not like the car, simply becasue it is not ME. I know, i know, YES i will end up spending probably twice what I could have bought one for, but that is my choice and I will not regret one second of it!

BTW...I am $1500 deep and that is just the cage and the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I feel this way too. Very strongly. Mechanics is what I'm working on to be my career so being able to build something myself, which is what I want to do will help greatly. Plus, if you don't love you're car enough to build it, it has no reason to perform the way you ask it to.

I'll look into all this great information, I appreciate it. I will most likely stick with this car and work towards making it better as I learn new things. I don't plan on racing professionally any time soon, and I sure will start with autocross. Need to save for the other aspects of my life, so this will be a slow process.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't listen to all the people saying "buy one, buy one!"</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neither did I.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would MUCH rather build my own</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW...I am $1500 deep and that is just the cage and the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll be curious to see if you still agree with that statement when you're all finished.

Personally, I have missed out on a lot of racing due to car "down-time."

 

This is our second year of developing the CRX. What started as a $3000 car has become a $12,000 race ready basic chassis. Notice I said basic-the engine is original to the car (175k) and runs fine. Our original budget was in the $8000 range. The mention of consumables is very important. That and a tow rig can get you well over $30,000 if you have to buy a truck and/or trailer. Fuel at the track can cost $5.50/gallon. Overnight stays and the actual cost of a tow can be $500 for a weekend. Entry fees are a separate issue.

Remember, if you are struggling to survive-do HPDE and enjoy your daily driver that way. If you have no one or any other obligations and are in a position where you have $10K to play with-there are some very nice possibilities. The lowest cost event would be at a track near your home (we have BeaveRun 60 miles from the house).

Just my 2 cents.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just started building my ITA civc Si. I didn't listen to all the people saying "buy one, buy one!" I would MUCH rather build my own because I believe that in itself will make you a better driver. I know it sound corny, but being one with the car goes a long ways in my mind. So I choose to start my driving relationship with my car from the ground up. Plus I just love wrenching! I have looked at other "prebuilt" cars and even in the photos I can realize that I would not like the car, simply becasue it is not ME. I know, i know, YES i will end up spending probably twice what I could have bought one for, but that is my choice and I will not regret one second of it!

BTW...I am $1500 deep and that is just the cage and the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats fine if you enjoy wrenching on a car, but don't get mislead into thinking that buying a "prebuilt" racecar means you don't have to turn a wrench. Also, it is really unfortunate to wad up and throw away a racecar that you have all that sweat equity in. Something to think about. Cars can and do get wrecked in this business...

 

Open up for a reality sandwich...

If you are looking FORWARD to any education or career development save yourself a lot of money and unhappiness and do not go road racing yet. Get established and then do it. Put any money that you would spend on a car into more school or a savings account.

That's it: Anything else is just rationalization, before or after the fact.

Kirk (who knows from experience)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are looking FORWARD to any education or career development save yourself a lot of money and unhappiness and do not go road racing yet. Get established and then do it. Put any money that you would spend on a car into more school or a savings account.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what I'm doing now (not that I could afford racing anyway).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">school or a savings account.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Furball=should have done this

Don't get me wrong, I love building a car and going to HPDE's but I would have saved allot of money. I have about 4-5,000 invested in an 88 CRX. This includes shocks and coil overs (that will be replaced), B16 motor, ECU, Axel's, Windshield, Tires, Numerous exhaust applications ( still don't have the right one that I like for the car), as everyone else has said, brakes, gas, regular maintenance, hotels is a BIG one, and food.

Whatever else the car might need. The worst part about all of this is that the car is not even close to being done yet. I still have not put a cage in and have not even thought about the motor upgrades as I am trying to get the rest of the car done first before I even get to the motor.

good luck with what ever you do.

 

cage $1200
Gc's with revalved koni's $1500
Seat $350
wheels $300
LSD $700
tires $675
fire supression $350
roll bar pads $60
window net $50
suit, gloves, shoes, underwear... $600
transponder $250
mirror $40
paint (interior and exterior) $300
new wheels studs $65
rotors $50
brakes $100


specific to my car:

fenders $60
hood $70
new winshield $150
4.73 final drive $950

Misc $1000

About $9000

Yeah I could spend 1/2 of that and be racing but again the satisfaction of my first well fought battle on the race track, IN MY CAR THAT I BUILT, is worth $4000 to me. Yes, worth $4000.

I will get back to you on if I feel that way in 6 months from now when I am *watching* others battle it out on the track

 

It seems too many try to race what car they want, rather than what is practical.

I think catch 22's and his car is perfect example of how you can race, and have a great time doing it, for cheap (relative to racing).

There is nothing more that i would like to do than take my savings and build a track car, but thankfully i have [some] self-control.

Take your time and let you as a driver develop before you dump thousands into a car. You dont need the best suspension, 180whp, $2000 forged wheels, and $1500 seats to have a good time on the track (or be fast).


Best of Luck.

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Take your time and let you as a driver develop before you dump thousands into a car. You dont need the best suspension, 180whp, $2000 forged wheels, and $1500 seats to have a good time on the track (or be fast).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.

 

Okay - I debated whether or not to post this but in the interest of not perpetuating myths about racing costs...

...I have budgeted $13,000 to build my current racing car. I spent $5000 to take it off of the street and am going top-drawer on all safety equipment. Note that when I'm done I'll have a STOCK VW GTI - no coilovers, no swap, no big brake kit, no none of that happy crap. Ninety pound springs and mushy OEM struts rule.

I WILL have all new bits connecting the chassis with the wheels, incuding rotors, calipers, brake lines, bearings, bushings, CV joints, hubs, and myriad other gubbins and doo-dahs, and I am pinching pennies as I go. I was thrilled to find a group buy on transponders so I could save $30. I'm post-whoring myself on the various classified BBs trying to find used wheels. I'll be thrilled when I eBay the OE radio for $20...

My budget for the 2004 season is $4000 which, if I don't have any major setbacks and sleep in a tent at the track, might get me thorugh 5 events.

It is NOT cheap to do this. I know that it could have been done more cheaply but I have reasons for going this route...

Kirk

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think catch 22's and his car is perfect example of how you can race, and have a great time doing it, for cheap (relative to racing).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Umm.... so you're using a guy who bought a "front-running" car only to find out it's quite illegal so he has to pay to return it to a slower, legal status - which includes buying and caging an entirely new shell - as an example of how you can not spend a fortune racing?

Scott, to me, is an example of someone who learned from his initial mistakes only to be blindsided by more hard-truths of the racing world. Then again, he's probably still fairly happy with his decision.

I do agree with this statement though
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It seems too many try to race what car they want, rather than what is practical.</TD></TR></TABLE>

From what little bit I've seen, people just don't know enough about racing to make the correct decision the first time out -- especially the people for whom money is an issue. You catch the motivation bug and the next though is: "I think I'll race my XXX that's sitting in the driveway". Months down the line you realize that you may have made a mistake but you think "well, it's close to being finished now... it's too late to stop". Some time later, when you realize that that last 10% was actually the majority of the total prep cost you know you screwed up but try not to think about it. Worst of all, you've developed some BS emotional connection to the lump of metal and are unable to cut your losses...

or maybe that's just me...