Well, I just got a call from the dealer and they diagnosed the issue as POSSIBLY a bad 4WS ECU…and if that is not the issue it could be the rear steering assembly. Each of these parts is over $2500. They also said that there is a wire that is shorted out that is going to the 4WS ECU.

I don’t think ANY of these are the issue. They had a recall for this issue that they said was already performed on my car that displayed the same symptoms as what I am experiencing. Is there anyway I can have them try to replace the part that the recall advised to replace??

This issue with my car is a safety issue so do you think I should contact Honda Headquarters???

Again, the issue with my car is the 4WS light comes on only when I drive my car and then turn it off and then restart it within a 10 minute time frame. Other than that…the 4WS works fine. On the rare occasion that the light does come on when I start my car that has been sitting over night…all I have to do is pull the stereo fuse…wait a few seconds and then replace it and the light does not come on.

When the light comes on…the rear wheels do not lock in place when the light comes on and gets a little unpredictable (dangerous) to drive.

I have heard of two others who have had issues with their 4WS and the dealer told them that the 4WS ECu was bad. After they replaced the ECU...their issue still was not fixed.


Any advise??
Thanks

 

I definately want to be kept updated on this issue.

I'm possibly going to get a 4ws box used but definately working and in good shape.. I get swaying back and forth when I cruise at highway speeds..

I beleive there is a steering angle sensor in our steering column that plays a part in the 4ws. Have you gotten a PROPER 4ws alignment done? and by proper I mean going step by step through the service manual, hving them turn the steeringwheel and the steering angle sensor in the tires watching the 4ws light blink etc.

I dont have the link right now but its the iceforge one IIRC .. walks you through this using the lock pin etc.

I'll let you know as well how my stuff works out, I have AIM and MSN , yohan_1@hotmail.com .. send me yer info ill add you and we'll keep in touch on this. I just got a helms manual and its the first thing im going to be reading up on.

I would definately consult head office and state it is a safety issue, but unfortunately the car is off warranty so not sure what much you can do.. For safety sake, maybe just buy and put the lock pin in and pull the fuse ??

 

how can i simply remove my 4ws steering system? does anyone have any pics? also, how can i disable it in the meantime until i can actually remove the hardware?

 

why would you want to remove the 4ws if you dont like just sell the car no sense in getting rid of it when they are hard to find anyway

 

i looked under my dash for the 4ws steering fuse, but it was not where the fuse map said it would be. any suggestions?<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dissconect the 4ws fuse. thats what i did. my 4ws works flawless, i need money so i will sell some parts if you need any. make me an offer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">POSSIBLY</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hate this word.

If you cannot part out the car and get another one, swap out the rear suspension components and convert it.

 

When I pull out my fuse under the hood...the car displays the SAME symptoms as if the 4WS light came on with the fuse in. The rear wheels still turn and the steering wheel turns to the left.

 

my 4ws has been having the same problems as you, I have the helms manual for my car and have gone through the diagnostics for it, the 4ws throws a code 72 which is a "temporary driving conditionds code". But i have all the same symptoms as you, and w/ my 18's that backend yanks really bad in ruts when the 4ws doesnt work. Mine aslo seems to have the most problems during the summer, i am believing that it is heat related.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quiklude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my 4ws has been having the same problems as you, I have the helms manual for my car and have gone through the diagnostics for it, the 4ws throws a code 72 which is a "temporary driving conditionds code". But i have all the same symptoms as you, and w/ my 18's that backend yanks really bad in ruts when the 4ws doesnt work. Mine aslo seems to have the most problems during the summer, i am believing that it is heat related.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I have a similar issue when going over grooved pavement.

But mine is definitley not related to the heat.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I pull out my fuse under the hood...the car displays the SAME symptoms as if the 4WS light came on with the fuse in. The rear wheels still turn and the steering wheel turns to the left. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude thats not right. With the fuse pulled the entire 4ws system should be disabled... I'm assuming your looking at the wheels as you turn the steering wheel and seeing the tires move ?

Also, what do you mean by "the steering wheel turns to the left" is this only when your driving or ??

You mentiond in the first post your car gets "unpredictable" to drive.. How?

What is your 4WS code ?? Can you explain the problem(s) in detail and the steps you've already takeN? IE change power steering fluid etc. easy stuff to do but nickle and dime you but your safety is worth it.. .. our minds combined might be able to help you ...

Have you gotten an alignment?

Here's the other thread :: If your wheels are still turning when your fuse is pulled there MUST be a short somewhere in the 4ws system bypassing the fuse... I have the helms w/ 4ws and would be happy to delve into it and help you troubleshoot this problem to death (or resolution)

... Right now im living w/my 4ws problems but im definately going to do a writeup .. im going to replace my rear steering actuator & tie rod (4ws unit under the car which includes the sensor) get a proper wheel alignment and 4ws alignment done correct w/ all lights etc. everything centered, and as well getting new tires so all 4 are the same ... (in the order of: tires, 4ws box, alignment) ... My stuff started going wrong when I had poor alignment in the back, my inside tires went bald .. replaced the tires, rotated front to back, got an alignment but not a honda 4ws one, my steering wheel was crooked.. there is a sensor in the front steering column where if your steering wheel gets aligned crooked and the 4ws ecu isn't tuned for the steering wheel TDC it'll fu!kup. - this is my understanding so far ... ill prolly needa pOOp again soon and read the helms and learn more :D ...


Modified by yohan at 11:14 AM 10/9/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Dude thats not right. With the fuse pulled the entire 4ws system should be disabled... I'm assuming your looking at the wheels as you turn the steering wheel and seeing the tires move ?

Also, what do you mean by "the steering wheel turns to the left" is this only when your driving or ??

You mentiond in the first post your car gets "unpredictable" to drive.. How?

What is your 4WS code ?? Can you explain the problem(s) in detail and the steps you've already takeN? IE change power steering fluid etc. easy stuff to do but nickle and dime you but your safety is worth it.. .. our minds combined might be able to help you ...

Have you gotten an alignment?

Here's the other thread :: If your wheels are still turning when your fuse is pulled there MUST be a short somewhere in the 4ws system bypassing the fuse... I have the helms w/ 4ws and would be happy to delve into it and help you troubleshoot this problem to death (or resolution)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

My steering wheel literally turns to the left like the car is pulling....but the car doesn't pull at all. If I drive on an off-camber road that all of the sudden switches the oppositecamber.....the car gets very scary. Hard to explain. It's like there is a sensor that is still trying to compensate or something. VERY weird!!!

This even happens with the 4WS fuse disconnected!!!

My car becomes unpredictable...as in...if I am making a U-turn...and I get on the gas kind of hard...the rear wheels feel like they freak out and turn ALL the way one way and they ALL the way to the other side in one second. It feels like it happens VERY quickly. It feels like I get tossed one way and then to the other way in about one second.
Also, if I am merging onto the highway with the 4WS light on.....the car feels very twitchy...like it could go either way at any moment.

I am not sure what error code I am throwing. I will check when I pick up my car.

I have never gotten an alignment. I do have new tires on my car and I am getting new shock installed very soon. I was thinking that the alignment could be the issue but when the 4WS is working fine...my car rolls very straight and the steering wheel in dead center.

I have NO IDEA what is going ton.

 

That sounds like the speed sensor for the system is screwing up. Sounds like it is trying to figure out if it should turn with the front wheels like this
// &lt;-- Front wheels
\\ &lt;-- Rear wheels
like it should under 17MPH or Turn opposite like it should over those speeds like this
//
//
Kinda like it's going from one to the other as if trying to decide.

 

Ok, couple of things...
Pull the fuse, put your head out the door when your sitting still and crank the steering wheel .. you can see the back tires turning .. If this happens when the fuse is pulled, I say problem w/ the ECU or a short somewhere in the 4ws wiring to the ECU.

When the 4ws light goes on, the back tires are supposed to lock in straight ahead position .. so if they don't turn, and your car wobbles it could be something front end .. but we need that code on your 4ws system to tell if it is the 4ws system causing this problem.

Unfortunately theres no easy way to tell if your back tires are steering when your "wobble" happens while your driving which would indicate something wrong with the Actuator ...

But definately spring the cash, and get the alignment from honda .. If your getting suspension, get after it already. its half a days work even for a noob. (I know because I am one and did my suspension in 6hours) If you cant afford it, based on your problems this is what VISA is all about .. hey, you'll do it eventually anyways ... and with winter coming you want your 4ws in shape and the car not wobbling because your asking for fish tails all over.

I'm actualy gonna pull the fuse this winter. I tailed a lot last year even going slow, need long wide turns to avoid it.

 

how much is a 4ws allignment from honda

 

Do the wheels always turn like this:
//
//
at speeds over 17mph? Meaning does the system ever totally turn off?

 

I think in the 3gen preludes the 4ws turned off over 30kmph .. (20mph?)

On ours its always functional, and the steering is like this
\\
//
... the back tires turn a max of like 15 degrees or something, when you regularly steer in a 2ws car where the steering locks, ours will go a punch more and that gives the extra degrees to 15. otherwise max of 7. It is , however, always active on the 4gen system because its electronic controlled but only works a minimal amount at high speeds ..

I dont know the full operation but I'll definately be tryin to readup s'more in trying to troubleshoot the 4ws probs.

Honda charged $100buxCDN ($70US) for a 2ws alignment, and $130CDN($95US) for 4ws .. They said they could not get the lock pin in to do mine properly and only did a 2ws which could potentially be the cause of my problems. (swerving at high speed left to right with the steering wheel straight the whole time)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">look at the fuse box under the hood. there should be one of those big ones held by two phillips head screws. just take it out and voila no 4ws. your light should come on so dont be scared by it.</TD></TR></TABLE>what is the fuse labeled as on the under-hood fuse map? i don't have any that say "4ws".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is the fuse labeled as on the under-hood fuse map? i don't have any that say "4ws".</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is a bigger yellow fuse that has two screws holding it down.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, couple of things...
Pull the fuse, put your head out the door when your sitting still and crank the steering wheel .. you can see the back tires turning .. If this happens when the fuse is pulled, I say problem w/ the ECU or a short somewhere in the 4ws wiring to the ECU.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Already tried that and the wheels DO NOT turn.

You would think the Honda mechanics would try stuff like this. They suck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> it feels weird changing lanes on the freeway. i dont like it one bit!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never driven a Prelude without 4WS, but I have to say it feels just fine for me.

I autox, and everyone keeps asking me if the system helps. I just tell them no because its hard to tell that its actually working. Is it helping and I'm just too used to it to tell?

 

Try a few things
* Clean the 4WS sensors on each wheel axle (2 per wheel). They tend to get dirty, especially with salt on roads. Use a karcher or something similar.
* Reset the 4WS ECU. Start up the engine, then turn the wheel all thre way left, then all the way right (check Mitchell's page -&gt; 4G repair manual, the procedure is described there)

The first cleared my problems, and those of a local Honda mechanic who has a 4G as well. The second cleared a friends problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jesus_FR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try a few things
* Clean the 4WS sensors on each wheel axle (2 per wheel). They tend to get dirty, especially with salt on roads. Use a karcher or something similar.
* Reset the 4WS ECU. Start up the engine, then turn the wheel all thre way left, then all the way right (check Mitchell's page -&gt; 4G repair manual, the procedure is described there)

The first cleared my problems, and those of a local Honda mechanic who has a 4G as well. The second cleared a friends problems.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool, I will try that. I have been working with Yohan on this. He has recommended to try a few things. I will TRY to do that this weekend.

The thing that gets me is that the Honda tech really didn't even diagnose the issue. All he recommended was changing the 4WS ECU and the rear actuator. I think he came to that conclusion based on the error code. I know a few people who the dealer recommended to do this and it did not fix their issue. These two parts are OVER $3500 EACH!!!

Not only that...they said that there was a short on one of the wires going to the 4WS ecu. I don't believe that since all I have to do with my car is let it sit for more than 15 minutes or pull the tereo 10 amp fuse to get ti to work again. If tyheir was a short...I would expect my 4WS light to come on while driving every once in a while

Nice to know you can't even count on Honda techs to diagnose the issues correctly.

 

Good point with the sensors, to update, the code # was 62 which diagnoses a problem w/ the power unit .. I Scanned the helms pages for this code and e-mail to AndyD but definately it is a short ...

Good point AndyD, why does it not come on while your driving ?? and just when booting up ... hmm. When my computer at home is back online I'll scan / post the Helms pages for the 4ws error code he's receiving ... I can't help out with how to check all the connections for voltage w/ a multimeter... its been too long.

Andy, if you get the code once ... does it ever go away on it sown w/o pulling the fuse or letting it sit for 15 ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
When the 4ws light goes on, the back tires are supposed to lock in straight ahead position .. so if they don't turn, and your car wobbles it could be something front end .. but we need that code on your 4ws system to tell if it is the 4ws system causing this problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not 100% True. There are a few times where the light will come on and yet the system will remain functional. I can not remember right now what they are but I know there are a few.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On ours its always functional, and the steering is like this
\\
//
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correction At speeds under 17MPH the wheels will turn like this.
// &lt;-- Front wheels
\\ &lt;-- Rear wheels
All speeds over 17MPH the wheels turn like this.
//
//

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sephro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Correction At speeds under 17MPH the wheels will turn like this.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to clarify...it is actually 18 mphs....but who is counting. LOL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yohan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Andy, if you get the code once ... does it ever go away on it sown w/o pulling the fuse or letting it sit for 15 ?</TD></TR></TABLE>Generally, letting the car sit for 15 minuutes fixes the issue 95% of the time. I have had to pull the fuse maybe three times to get it to work again.