Want to get a complete kit for a H23a
Which one do you guys prefer?
Please help me out, I did search first. I want to get opinions from people who have had some experience, either on their own cars or someone they know.

 

Here is my OPINION

I haven't finished my project yet but I have an h23 and I looked into the kits and this is my take on them.
I found that FMAX was an excellent starter kit. If you haven't done an engine build then I think this is the kit for you. Install is easy compared to some of the others and it basically has everthing you need. It's not going to get you 300whp without an engine build and some upgrades but if you are strictly looking for a kit, then you must not want that kind of horsepower anyway.

Drag has had issues with their manifolds. At least if you search that is what you will find on here. I myself am not a fan of the routing of the i/c piping they have.
You are missing some choices there too. Maxrev & Revhard. These guys do have kits for the h23 so check into those as well. What are your goals for the car? What kind of power do you intend to make.(realistically) What kinda money do you THINK you'll spend?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by symba &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are missing some choices there too. Maxrev & Revhard. These guys do have kits for the h23 so check into those as well. What are your goals for the car? What kind of power do you intend to make.(realistically) What kinda money do you THINK you'll spend?</TD></TR></TABLE>


truely i think you should peice together a custom kit, but though kyle (2k_teg) and one of these kits you can make many upgrades before you buy it, so you dont have to buy stuff again.

 

if u got $$$ go 4 full race kit

 

custom or full race

 

As stated before, we need to know the goals of your car.

Drag gen 4 has completely re-routed the i/c piping on the h23a's and use a much better manifold now. The downpipe is now a tad bit larger and the i/c piping is ALL mandrel bent.

 

Ok, cool. This is the sort of help I was looking for!
Depending on your definition, I am doing a rebuild. Forged 9:1 pistons, billet rods, new OEM balanced crank, resleeve, new OEM headgasket. I will also get a ECU, but I haven't decided on which one to get, so that might take a while... (no, I can't get Hondata... )
I really want around 350hp. The truth is I have no idea of what to expect though. I don't live in the US and I will literally be the first person to turbocharge a prelude in my state, and the third person in my country. So as you can imagine, help is a little hard to come by...
I was hoping to run a 2 stage boost setup. 6psi daily and about 15 on the track. As long as the 6psi will get me a bit more power than stock I will be happy, but of course I want the 15 psi setting to really kick!
I am not opposed to spending a bit of cash, $4000-$5000, but that doesn't mean that I MUST spend thatamount. I liked the idea of the FMAX kit cause everything comes complete, and requires no modification. I was planning to get one of these, and then upgrade bits and pieces later if need be. (ie, bigger cooler, new ecu etc...)
But since the turbo is probably the most expensice part, I want tot get it right the first time. T3/4 ball bearing?
Thanks once again for your help. Once I am finished I will buy you all a !

 

the drag gen 4 many really sucks *****...trust me i have one. the boost creep is crazy.

i am running an elbow to use a 40 mm wastegate. i just took it off to port it out, when i measured the hole to begine w/the port was closer to 30 mm then 35. i just ported the manifold and flange to about 42 mm, we'll see how this works.

if not lovefab here i come.

 

ok, let me just clarify...
I want to get 350whp.
So far I have JE 9:1 forged pistons, Crower billet rods, new crank.
Within a fortnight or so I will have a resleeved block, JG cam gears.
in the not so distant future, I will get the cams reground and find the right ecu.

I figure this is all the building I will need to do to reach 350 safely. I am guessing I will need to go to around 12-13psi to do this. If I am wrong, please let me know.

 

I did not know the boost creep was that bad with the gen 4's.

If you want 350whp, go with a custom kit. In the end you will end up spending right around the same price for the components and be on a much higher quality level.

I gotta jet right now, but tomorrow I'll send you a list of stuff I recommend you getting.

 

That would be awesome Gude, thanks!

 

yea i have a 97 SH and i was told if i want 400whp to go custom but im not sure on hwere i get all the parts from adn i buy it seperate right? like intercooler adn turbo and pipping and downpipe and all? thats considered custom correct? puttin it all tog. urself to ur needs or wants? and whats or how do you get or whatevre loll just give me info on the full race turbo u guys were talking about thanks.

 

So you guys don't reckon you can get 400 whp out of a kit? I know that in the end you pay around the same money for parts as a custom kit, but its the time you save in labour that makes the difference. Kits like FMAX have all the cooler piping cut and bent to the exact right size for your engine, as well as the necessary fuel computer settings... surely that has got to save a lot of time when it comes to fitting?

 

the fuel setup that comes w/fmax is a joke. thats the main part i dont like.

as for turbo i recommend a t3 60-1, ballbearing is nice, but not nessary. it will however reduce lag greatly. i have a garret and the quality is great.

id get love fab mani.

intercooler from boostcoolers on e-bay. i used maxrev universal intercooler piping.

have a custom dp made at any exhaust shop.

why is hondata not an option, no tuners? look into aem then, they have a wideband auto tune option, then when your turner is learning the system, it will be much easier for them.

say 720 cc injectors. walbro fuel pump.

apex avc-r, it has gear dependant boost so you can get traction in 1st.

honestly, after the fact you will probly want to run 10 on the streets for all your work.

to give you an idaea whp, w/a similar setup. bone stock h22 w/80k and been sitting for over a year, made 272 UNTUNED whp @9psi. the reason it was untuned is cause the shitty drag mani kept creeping, so we just had to dump a lot of fuel, and retard the ign timing. i am going back next week w/ a few changes, and going for 300+whp on a stock block, while i finish my re-rebuild.

 

I hit 330whp on my drag gen 2 kit, and keep in mind that was with an upgraded 3" dp with standalone. Intercooler piping is not hard at all to fabricate, just order some U bends from JC whitney and chop them up till they line up. Then have the pipes welded together. If you have a 4th gen I will take pictures of my I/C piping so you know exact how to route it. As far as necessary fuel computer settings, what fmax has will not cut it. You might be able to get away with a FMU set-up but it is not advised for the 400whp level.

So here is what i recommend-

Love-Fab Manifold (http://www.lovefab.com)
If you do get the lovfab, talk to cody to position the DP facing the altenator as well as having proper oil return line clearances. Have him talk to me and I will tell him what exactly needs to be done to fit a little better on other H series set-ups.

Custom 3" Downpipe
Love-Fab can do this for you

2 1/4" or 2 1/2" Intercooler Piping
Order U bends from JC whitney or Summit racing. I think MKteller8 on this board supplies cody (lovefab) with all of his pipes, so you might want to talk to him about piping as well.

Tial 38mm wastegate or 40mm wastegate
http://www.cheapturbo.com or http://www.importparts.com Keep in mind h-t members get a 10% discount at import parts.

Oil Feed/Return Lines
I can supply you with all of your oil feed lines if you need them. They consist of brass fittings and a -4an steel braided feed line. As for your oil return line, the best thing to do is run all steel braided lines with earl's fittings. I had an issue with length so I ended up using -10an brass nipples on the turbo and oil pan with a -10an line since i had no room for earl's fittings. Either way works, it just depends on what type of clearance you are looking at.

Turbo
If you want 400whp, I recommend running a 60-1 turbo. Precision sc61's are pretty popular right now and thats what I would recommend running. Talk to mike at motormatrix.com. A .58 a/r t3 with t04e compressor housing should do the trick for you, but you might want to talk to him about which stage wheel or trim you want.

Intercooler
For anything in the 400whp range, you need a core that is 24x8x3. PWR and Precision are some of the nice ones out that run around the $500 range. You might want to try looking in the forced induction classifieds, people are ALWAYS selling intercoolers. I found a kick *** deal on mine and it was even brand new. They are much better then the spearco one's that come with the drag kits.

RC 720cc injectors
550 might cut it, but its better to have an injector that can handle more flow then one that is almost peaked out. I got mine from larry at endyn. Also invest in a nice fuel rail.

Fuel pump
You need at least a walbro 255 intank fuel pump. Keep in mind, now would be a good time to redo your fuel lines in steel braided. I would run a -8an feed and -6an return. If you do choose to do this, it will run you around the $650 range.

Hondata s200
Talk to kyle at http://www.wiredspeed.com

 

Definitely go custom. you can piece together the parts much cheaper with the deals you find on the net.

AEM EMS for ecu. Extremely tunable. Get teh wideband o2 sensor as well.

The walbro is a great fuel pump. I agree with gude about the 720cc injectors, a good investment. For fuel rails, i always see STR rails on ebay mad cheap. Don't forget a good fuel pressure regulator.

One of the mags just had a car with the drag manifold and they didnt like it at all. It created a really peaky boost curve. It was also limited to certain boost controllers.

I like the APEXi boost controller. You can control boost with all sorts of things like RPM, Gear, and im not sure but maybe even throttle position, ill have to look that up.

Lets not forget ignition systems. You're gonna need some good ngk or denso iridium plugs. Good wires too. Might want to upgrade the coil or go to an aftermarket box. Gotta keep that mixture lit

 

gude, glad to see we agree on a lot of things.

.58 a/r seems small, but he is running low boost, so that would probly be good, quick spool. what size is a to4e, is it bigger or smaller then the the to4s, smaller im assuming, since im running a to4s .70 compressor on my quest to be over 500 whp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machinehead &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lets not forget ignition systems. You're gonna need some good ngk or denso iridium plugs. Good wires too. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I recommend the MSD digital 6 with hvc coil. You know what the funny thing is? Stock OEM wires have been proved time and time again with high whp setups... but i choose to run magnecore's. A bunch of the B series guys on the board have ran stock ignitions up past 400whp before, but I had ignition problems in the past so I wanted to have every aspect covered this time around for my last tuning session. As far as plugs, denso's are a waste of money. Get the NGK part number 3330's and gap them to about a .028 when tuning.

As far as a/r sizings, I only recommended the .58 for a faster spool as you mentioned. A .63 would be nice, but then you might as well go for a .58 t4 if you do that. Also keep in mind you can get different stage wheels which help out greatly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GudeH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I recommend the MSD digital 6 with hvc coil. You know what the funny thing is? Stock OEM wires have been proved time and time again with high whp setups... but i choose to run magnecore's... </TD></TR></TABLE>

got the same, running ngk stock replacement wires though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GudeH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Get the NGK part number 3330's and gap them to about a .028 when tuning.

As far as a/r sizings, I only recommended the .58 for a faster spool as you mentioned. A .63 would be nice, but then you might as well go for a .58 t4 if you do that. Also keep in mind you can get different stage wheels which help out greatly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what heat rang is that. i dont have my #' on me(im at school), but i run the ngk coppers 2 heat ranges colder. currently gapped to .035

well damn, i didnt realize the spool time on a strait to4 would be equal to that.

i got an .82 a/r t3 turbine, w/.70 a/r to4s compressor

 

the 3330's are a 7 heat range.

 

how important is it to upgrade the h23 valvetrain in turbo application's
to make over 350whp

 

found a guy selling a SFP mani with a t3 flange and a 40mm wastegate.
Its brand new. What do you think?
Any good?

Oh, and there are no tuners for Hondata where I live... no one has really even heard of it before.
I might look into the AEM EMS.

 

As long as you are running stock revlimit, your valve-train is not going to really make a difference. With only 350whp you can get away with a stock valve-train all day long. You might want to look into having some port and polishing done to the head though to help out your flowing.

SFP are good manifolds from what I have heard in the past. Talk to mike at motormatrix.com, he can hook you up with more info on the actual manifolds. Call around and see what the tuners are familiar with as in EMS. Remember, your EMS is only as good as your tuner.

 

Found this, and I think it is the best choice turbo for me. (if I am going with the custom setup)

http://store.yahoo.com/cheaptu....html

What do you guys think? Is this a Ball bearing one?

Also, can someone tell me what the AR on a turbo is? I know that 60 is better than 50, but I don't understand what the ratio is.

 

it has to do with the size. bigger #'s useally mean more power=more lag. the best thing is to match a turbo to your engine and psi goals, using compressor maps...

here ya go:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=142398