i've been reading the ALL MOTOR fourm now more than anything else that i do online and im wondering about the GSR block with LS internals discussion...
wouldnt this setup be like an LS/VTEC without the insufficient oil pressure problems because of poor taps and eliminate lubrication problems because of the oil squirters?? i would like to know as much as i can about this setup and if this is a repost someone please point me in the right direction.. thanks in advance

 

basically it is kinda like ls vtec, but more or less it's just a small stroked gsr. with the ls internals you get the bit of extra displacement that the ls has, plus the oil squirters and the capability to bolt a vtec head on with no other modification, it's actually pretty nice, i'm probably gonna be doing one here this winter.....

 

Yeah it adds the whopping 37cc of extra displacement.

 

you cant relly go by displacement numbers, although i can tell you this right now, if i had a GSR , it would have a LS crank in it.. simply b/c of it making more torq at a lower RPM. you might think thats ok, yea more torque, but in fact, its a necissity when your racing, you shift, and where the RPMS fall, you have to gain thos RPMS back, and one reason that ls/vtecs kill GSRs ANY day, is that when people shift around 8-8500, they land on or very near the highest torque point.

 

I'll take the GSR motor w/ GSR crank & mate it to an ITR tranny. I do have a GSR motor and have researched this topic exhaustively. My conclusion is that the torque difference is overrated. There are several ways to keep your engine speed in your powerband while racing w/o using a different crank. I'm not getting involved in another GSR vs frankenmotor debate either. If I were doing an LS/Vtec, this is exactly the way I'd do it, but I'll take the lower piston speeds and higher r/s ratio of the b18c1 and stock crank. Peace.

 

that makes sense but i didnt want this to be a ls/vtec vs. gsr debate as much as a LS block vtec vs. GSR block LSVTEC..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skribblah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you cant relly go by displacement numbers, although i can tell you this right now, if i had a GSR , it would have a LS crank in it.. simply b/c of it making more torq at a lower RPM. you might think thats ok, yea more torque, but in fact, its a necissity when your racing, you shift, and where the RPMS fall, you have to gain thos RPMS back, and one reason that ls/vtecs kill GSRs ANY day, is that when people shift around 8-8500, they land on or very near the highest torque point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

u sound like an ignorant moron in that statement. "makes more torque at low RPM". **** anyone that likes to drag/road race doesnt see anything below 8k so there went ur theory about low RPM torque. well since ur an expert at LSVTECs killing GSRs ANY DAY where does a GSR fall once it shifts??? to ignorant comments

 

I dont think the setup (LS crank in a GSR block) is something so wonderful that people go out of their way to creat/build it.

If you have a GSR block that you are starting a buildup with.... but you have NO crank, why not buy an LS crank. I dunno, buy it.

If you have a GSR block that has a GSR crank, then by all means keep it in there!

The minor differences in performance you guys are discussing can be made up for in any of 100 ways using other parts... flywheel weight, clutch weight and material, driver skill, pistons, cams, intake manifold, header, timing, ecu/tuning, tires, wheels, brake rotor weight (size), etc.........

 

Stay with the GSR crank......

 

ok i have the gsr already, right now my car is off the road due to an accident. the reason why im asking these quesitons is because i will be pulling the engine to have the car fixed and painted.. while the engine is out i want to build a poor man's type r but add the LS internals for an extra bit of power.. according to all the posts im going to just get ITR or CTR pistons get a b16 head and call it a day.. i can always add on to the head later.. thanks a lot guys

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by owen_the_soyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think the setup (LS crank in a GSR block) is something so wonderful that people go out of their way to creat/build it.

If you have a GSR block that you are starting a buildup with.... but you have NO crank, why not buy an LS crank. I dunno, buy it.

If you have a GSR block that has a GSR crank, then by all means keep it in there!

The minor differences in performance you guys are discussing can be made up for in any of 100 ways using other parts... flywheel weight, clutch weight and material, driver skill, pistons, cams, intake manifold, header, timing, ecu/tuning, tires, wheels, brake rotor weight (size), etc.........</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think it was already assumed that people were doing this after most is said and done...cause that is ALOT of work for something that isnt exactly NEEDED, but everything helps.

 

thats exactly what i was thinking.. i have the LS parts so why not put them in and see what happens.. what i am afraid of is something going wrong as it would in a LS/V.. so basically it comes down to high rev fun vs. a bit more power and less revs...

 

wouldn't you have to deck the block to put ls rods and ls crank into a gsr block????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

u sound like an ignorant moron in that statement. "makes more torque at low RPM". **** anyone that likes to drag/road race doesnt see anything below 8k so there went ur theory about low RPM torque. well since ur an expert at LSVTECs killing GSRs ANY DAY where does a GSR fall once it shifts??? to ignorant comments </TD></TR></TABLE>

you didnt read. i didnt say it makes more torque at like 3,000 where nobody will use it, i am saying it makes torque at the shiftpoint. you shift at 8500, and it brings it back down to or right near the RPM where the longer ls stroke makes more torque. do your homework kid

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skribblah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you didnt read. i didnt say it makes more torque at like 3,000 where nobody will use it, i am saying it makes torque at the shiftpoint. you shift at 8500, and it brings it back down to or right near the RPM where the longer ls stroke makes more torque. do your homework kid </TD></TR></TABLE>

u see those quotation marks in my statement??? "more torque at lower RPM" is exactly what u said. i wouldnt consider shiftpoint at 8500 "lower RPM" nor would i consider the RPM range that u land in after a shift lower RPM. so i think u should read more carefully at ur own statements.

as far as the shiftpoint u have a good point on the GSR motor with LS crank making more torque, but thats obviously due to displacement.

correct me if im wrong, the way i understand it the LS rod bearings are skinnier therefor havin less "surface" for the oil to keep it seperated from the crank.

 

theres no replacement for displacement. what you need to do is ask yourself how long you would wnat this setup to last, and how high do you plan on revving to. obviously a ls crank is going to make more power period. r/s ratio between a gsr and a ls is so small that they really shouldnt be compared. if you swap a ls internals into a gsr it will last just as long as a gsr, as long as your using a stock gsr redline. reving a ls bottom end without oil squirters and vtec oil pump to a stock gsr redline your probably looking at a rebuild alot sooner.

 

on flame wars
If you have a GsR block with no crank, giver and pick up an Ls crank (it'll probably be cheaper anyway), but if you've got a GsR bottom end, don't bother opening it up unless you are going forged. Work on the top end if you got the money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbociv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres no replacement for displacement. what you need to do is ask yourself how long you would wnat this setup to last, and how high do you plan on revving to. obviously a ls crank is going to make more power period. r/s ratio between a gsr and a ls is so small that they really shouldnt be compared. if you swap a ls internals into a gsr it will last just as long as a gsr, as long as your using a stock gsr redline. reving a ls bottom end without oil squirters and vtec oil pump to a stock gsr redline your probably looking at a rebuild alot sooner.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So who uses stock redline? If power is torque(rpm)/x then having more torque doesn't necessarily mean you have more power...period. It means you have more torque...period.

 

more torque at the same rpm is going to give you more power, as you started
at higher rpm you're not as concerned with torque because rpm becomes the larger factor. Torque is king when it comes to NA drag racing (what 80% of the people in here are doing)

 

That isn't necessarily so either. I watch people launch at 4k+ rpm and never get below 7k rpm after till the end of the 1320. Bottom line is that the few points of additional torque at low rpms will make the biggest impact when you're going to the grocery store.

 

i plan on building the head more than the block... if the LS crank will give me a bit more power without sacraficing the life of the motor w/ stock redline i think ill go for it.. i have time and the parts as well.. i should also be using the LS rods or should i keep the GSRs? i also plan to do ctr or ITR pistons for the compression.. anyone see anything wrong with this setup?

 

You can't use GSR rods or rod bearings with the LS crank. GSR rods have a smaller big end. The oil squirters must be modified because the LS crank will hit them. Good luck.

 

anyone know how you have to modify the squirters exactly?? and what would be a fairly safe rpms to rev to with a gsr block with LS internals, ITR pistons and b16 head? thanks

 

i've revved my dads stock ls/vtec to 8500 for the last 2 years.........i don't care what anyone says about revvin ls motors.....they are great motors and they are "busrt" motors meaning that they will rev 9k, but like to be shifted right there like drag racing, i wouldn't go try to road race the motor and keep it above 7k for a long long period of time......and with the ls internals in a gsr motor, there isn't any reason why you shouldn't be able to rev it to 9k anyhow, cause now you have the oil squirters wich is the problem with the ls

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TwistedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've revved my dads stock ls/vtec to 8500 for the last 2 years.........i don't care what anyone says about revvin ls motors.....they are great motors and they are "busrt" motors meaning that they will rev 9k, but like to be shifted right there like drag racing, i wouldn't go try to road race the motor and keep it above 7k for a long long period of time......and with the ls internals in a gsr motor, there isn't any reason why you shouldn't be able to rev it to 9k anyhow, cause now you have the oil squirters wich is the problem with the ls</TD></TR></TABLE>
more so actually ls block has skinnier rod bearings. the rod bolts tend to stretch at high rpm's. the fact it does not have a block girdle.
more factors why the ls block is less reliable than a gsr block, stock for stock.