Experts: what would clearance be for CTR pistons into ITR block and head with Toda B camshafts - valve/piston issues?

I think this was discussed some while ago but lost the thread.

Would I be able to get away with OEM head gasket or have to go back to the Toda 1.0 mm? Head is off at Portflow so I think compression should stay around 11.7/8 but was wondering if anybody could address the valve/piston clearance issue (OEM ITR valves)...

 

well, make sure you find out if tom mills your head or if its ever been off the car before, make sure to find out if its already been milled

I would call akh trading and ask them directly. the folks at toda arent as retarded as the skunk2 people and they actually have customer tech support. they should know for sure if it wont work.

if akh says u have plenty clearence, I would have tom mill the head before running an aftermarket headgasket. running oem with a milled head is better.

actually, also post on the importbuilders board and ask jeff how much clearence there is. I bet he has played with a setup with b's and ctr pistons.

off the top of my head, I think there is clearance, but im not sure how much space u ahve to play with cam gears. I do know that the b's dont usually like to be left at 0,0

but I dont have a direct answer for you
i hope that helps somewhat

 

As long as everything is stock height, you will have no problems (assuming everything is assembled properly).

 

if its not assembled properly, he will have more problems than just valve clearence issues

 

thanks for the tips, i will check them out

 

you'll be fine.

 

no problems with stock gasket.

fyi, last time i checked akh wasnt that knowledgable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no problems with stock gasket.

fyi, last time i checked akh wasnt that knowledgable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

with some of there build ups they blew a motor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoon1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

with some of there build ups they blew a motor </TD></TR></TABLE>


as with any engine R&D you are gonna blow stuff up especially if you are trying to extract all the power posible from an engine!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sgT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

fyi, last time i checked akh wasnt that knowledgable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, I knew you would say that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


as with any engine R&D you are gonna blow stuff up especially if you are trying to extract all the power posible from an engine!</TD></TR></TABLE>

well if you want to call it R & D

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


as with any engine R&D you are gonna blow stuff up especially if you are trying to extract all the power posible from an engine!</TD></TR></TABLE>



chuckles at Chad's title...

 

Steve, would I still be OK if Tom milled that 0.1 mm?? Also what would be the compression ratio with the stock OEM headgasket - my calculation is that with bowl work by Tom that it would be still about 11.8 or so and that with the mill that would boost me into the 12.x ratio??

I am trying to run this on the street (locally, VA). Hey Steve would you be able to Hondata tune this on obd0 PR3??

 

.....why not clay the motor?

You'll need to do this anyway to know what your maximum advance/ retard is for each cam.....

If I'm not mistaken, steve was at +10 before with spec c's and ctr pistons.

At the very least, lock the rockers in vtec and rotate the crank by hand to check.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type R Bob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol, I knew you would say that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

he's right.. i got an email from them saying that i won't lose any power using toda valve springs for my itr cams

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

he's right.. i got an email from them saying that i won't lose any power using toda valve springs for my itr cams</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....and how much power did you lose?


I will agree though, that AKH aka TODA USA didn't seem to know much about their own products when I called them. Don't get me wrong, they're super nice guys, but they just didn't know a whole lot. As a matter of fact, they were amazed we could get power out of their cams with stock compression. I've even called them before on clearance questions (ballpark), and not only did they not know - they almost sounded like they didn't understand the term "valve to piston clearance."

Here's the thing though - just because someone else may have more than enough clearance with their setup using the exact same parts as you, that doesn't mean that you'll have the same amount. There are always minute differences between motor builds that can give you more or less clearance. How much is determined by the motor builder.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


.....and how much power did you lose?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't kno.. i'm using portflow/itr combo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ruby Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Steve, would I still be OK if Tom milled that 0.1 mm?? Also what would be the compression ratio with the stock OEM headgasket - my calculation is that with bowl work by Tom that it would be still about 11.8 or so and that with the mill that would boost me into the 12.x ratio??

I am trying to run this on the street (locally, VA). Hey Steve would you be able to Hondata tune this on obd0 PR3??</TD></TR></TABLE>

With the pistons alone you are looking at over 12.25-12.5:1
tom likes to skim the heads a little, it wont affect anything because its very little material.

If you want to use hondata, i strongly recommend using a p28 ecu over the
POS PR3/PW0 ECUs

 

as with any engine R&D you are gonna blow stuff up

jesuschris that's phucking funny as hell......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> as with any engine R&D you are gonna blow stuff up

jesuschris that's phucking funny as hell......</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, I get it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ruby Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my calculation is that with bowl work by Tom that it would be still about 11.8 or so and that with the mill that would boost me into the 12.x ratio??</TD></TR></TABLE>

You need to take into account of the difference in compression height between the ITR and CTR pistons, go back to the cspeed comp calculator and take of 0.020" off the piston to deck height to compensate. should be around 12.5 like sgt said.

Mine are running fine, cams gears at 0,0 ,still got to get some dyno time (as in my sig)

 

i think that part of my point was that his bowlwork does drop the effective compression - my recollection was that he said i would end up with 42.6/7 cc volume with bowl work AND o.1 mm milled and that with just the bowl polish the cr would drop a point of compression.

can anybody confirm?

 

ps - steve, to convert to p28 i would need the works as i just wired this up to previous b16a setting (1991 JDM PR3)- what would be the cheapest way to do that?

do you have time to do the electricals and if so, what would it cost (IM me on this if of interest)?

 

the chamberwork(not bowl work) doesnt affect CR that much.

you will need a 92-00 vtec distributor repinned to your harness, ecu harness adapter, and 4 wire o2 sensor