I didn't want to contribute to highjacking that other thread but DID want to correct a misconception: It would NOT be difficult to get later model GS-Rs listed on the same ITCS spec line as the existing '94-95 model year. Those through 1999 will be eligible next year (if I can still count?) and all that is required is a letter and completion of the SCCA's spec sheets. If the specifications are essentially the same, it's a slam-dunk. Those that have changed just have to be pointed out...

It's not like anyone is going to think carefully about what class to put it in, right?

Kirk

 

My contribution.

<pasted from another thread>

Haha somehow out of a drift topic, now there is some demand for a "Would the GSR at the current weight get absolutely destroyed in ITS" thread. This forum really works in wonderful ways! To keep it as short as possible, Yes and No are both correct. Yes, because I do not believe there is ANY ITS car right now that would not get destroyed by this particular #28 BMW, so technically Yes is a legit answer. While No is also correct, since I believe that more than one GSR in the sediv has already won multiple races in ITS. This is hardly sign of a car that gets absolutely destroyed in my book, but maybe we all have different expectations. So of course we can look at this in any way we wish. Personally, although I don't agree with the weight they gave it, it does not mean for one second that a GSR can not run up front or even win in ITS - something that has already been done before even though there are relatively very few GSRs being raced in ITS in the first place. GR yes I agree with you, on *paper* the del sol vtec does look like a killer for ITS.

 

Hmm... some things to think about. I was under the impression that getting the car classed would be a huge hassle. Admittedly, I know little about the SCCA. This is only marginally on topic but I take it that adjustable A arms like the Skunk 2 arms are still not legal? How does SCCA defend this position given that they allow camber plates on strut cars?

For me, this is all just talk at this point given the unemployment situation. But with living 10 minutes from RA it really makes sense to look into racing SCCA rather than making so many long trips to race with NASA. But I just keep getting responses from people that race with SCCA like "oh that's just typical SCCA crap." "Yeah, SCCA pretty much hates Hondas". "The GSR can't be competitive because of A, B and C etc." Like Alex mentions, the definition of competive is important. I don't think I have the skill to win SCCA races and I know I don't have the motor even if the car was very competive. But if people are saying that the GSR is capable of beating most cars except the BMWs with a good driver then that is not so bad. Who knows, maybe SCCA will reduce the Tegs weight or add weight to the BMW one day. Prolly not but it sounds less hopeless than so many SCCA racers have relayed to me.

 

i would personally race a del sol over a gsr, less weight, shorter wheel base, oh wait, i do race a del sol!! what are the minimum weights for the gsr and del sol in ITS anyways??

 

Acura GSR - 2680# (92-93)
Acura GSR - 2690# (94-95)
Honda Del Sol Si - 2175# (93-94)
Honda Del Sol VTEC - 2360# (94-96)

 

What are people with GSRs doing to make that weight? I run 60 lbs of lead, full tank of gas and full cool suit cooler to make 2575 as it is. Can you run 160 lbs of lead?

 

No, ballast is limited to 100 lbs in 25 lbs. increments. I don't recall if your car had the heater core but if not, that's worth some weight. I know one guy that runs the spare tire (which is legal and I do not believe is counted as ballast).

 

Yeah, heater core + stock crank pulley and a few other items should get it closer.

 

how the hell are guys getting the del sol vtec at 2360 with driver?? my car at half tank is 2298pounds, with me in it, its at 2460!they must rip the tar off the under side.

 

so who else in the country is building a del sol vtec? id really love to see this car show up at arrc and see how it does.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so who else in the country is building a del sol vtec? id really love to see this car show up at arrc and see how it does.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's a guy around the Ohio region (I forget where he said he was from) that runs a del Sol VTEC. I think his name is "Rodinger" - could be wrong, though. It's the pink and grey one.

I'd like to build an ITS del Sol VTEC if I could get gather the funds.

 

Bill Roediger (sp?). Nice guy. He also runs Honda Challenge. That car is pretty quick and he is running at the heavier honda challenge weight. He and I spent some time talking about lines at Summit Point and I got the feeling that, like me, he is still learning a lot about his car and racing in general. The Del Sol is a player. I would love to build one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bill Roediger (sp?). Nice guy. He also runs Honda Challenge.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would be hin. He gave me some good advise at my first NASA HPDE at Mid-Ohio in April. I think he finished at a respectable position at Mid-Ohio. http://racenasa.com/results.htm

 

just curious and i cant find my GCR, whats the rim size on the GSR and Del Sol, not that its that much of a factor...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just curious and i cant find my GCR, whats the rim size on the GSR and Del Sol, not that its that much of a factor...</TD></TR></TABLE>

'92-'93 GSR: 14"
'94-'95 GSR: 15"
del Sol Si, VTEC: 14"
del Sol S: 13"

 

The Del Sol looks good on paper but it does have some issues.
And HRacer is dead-on. Even at 2700ish pounds the Integras are OK for ITS, but pretty much nothing is even close to some of the BMWs out there, especially the #28 bimmerworld car. He's beating former ARRC winning ITS cars by 1/2 a lap.

Chris B. - Your car needs some things bolted back in it to be ITS legal. Heater core is a start. With the core and some other minor things along with the spare tire and a full tank of gas you'll be close. Might need about 50lbs of lead.
And yes, the GSR min weight needs to be about 2575 to 2600 in ITS.

Scott, who's ITC Civic comes off the track every time at 35 to 40lbs overweight and has no weight to legally remove (except for the driver to quit reading the recipe thread).

 

If the Bimmerword BMWs show up: Forget it.
If the Bimmerworld BMWs do not show up: You have exactly 1 chance in hell.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He's beating former ARRC winning ITS cars by 1/2 a lap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Doh...

 

I somewhat disagree. There are only 2 well prepped GSRs that run outside Florida in the Southeast that I know of. Both cars exclusively ran the ECR series (where the Bimerworld cars run very sparingly) last year. Both cars had wins (one at RRR, one at CMP). The August race at CMP, they finished 1,2. This year only one has run the ECR series (the other is getting a motor I believe) and went from 5th to near the back of the pack on the start (due to a spin at T1 at CMP) and absolutely walked away over the next few laps in the rain. They had a timing issue in pit lane that cost them the win but they by far and away had that race in the bag. Considering one of these cars had a stock motor, the other only has raced the car for one year (they are running RA-1s and Ecstas respectively), I do not see this as a one chance in hell prospect. In the rain ... I got a lot of money on the GSR.

I am not saying the GSR is THE car for ITS. The 325 is seemingly THE car and there is little doubt of that if you go to RA and watch the #28 car. But that's only one track and the GSR can win and ran all year last year in the top 3 in the ECR consistently and that is with two samples in the SE running the northern tracks.

 

I don't post here much, but the topic seems interesting.

I have been racing a 1995 GSR in ITS for the last 2 years. I can tell you without a doubt that the car is competitive. Last year my co-driver and I won SCCA races at the following tracks:

- Sebring (Long Course)
- Roebling Road
- Moroso
- Homestead

We finished 1st in the SCCA Florida Endurance Series and 3rd in the SCCA ECR series.

Recently Greg Ira (who runs a 1994 ITS GSR out of South Florida) won at the Daytona Double SARRC in August, he has also won at Moroso and Homestead.

Last year at the Daytona Double SARRC I had faster lap time and beat the Bimmerworld car of Robbie Kollars'. At Kershaw last year my co-driver (Rob May) ran down the same BMW, passed him and led until a pit stop fire.

The biggest thing the GSR has going for it is the handling, the power is about the same as a RX-7 and yes the BMW does have alot of power. But I think that depending on the track the GSR can win and is competitive.

Scott Seck
#38 ITS GSR

Thanks to Carbotech!

 

have you run into any del sol vtec's on the tracks where youre from??im very interested in seeing how they compare with the gsr on some fast tracks.

 

Hey Scott how you doing,

Finally now maybe some of the GSR rumors and myths will be put to rest!

The del sol vtec even with a fully built to IT rules motor (on stock ecu) struggles on the longer straights. I only know of one personally that was raced in ITS for a little while by two different drivers and they both say the same thing. Once you reach 5th gear, cars start passing you. On a tighter course like Sebring short, the del sol is a car to have. It accelerates very quick in 3rd and 4th gear and is light weight. The del sol’s main problem is it’s lack of torque and the fact that it probably puts down the least hp to the wheels out of all the ITS cars. On paper it looks good based on its stock specs, but usually an IT car gains a certain amount after being built. The del sol just does not pick up as much as most other IT cars do. Nevertheless, it still remains a very good platform that needs to be given some chances. Right now there are so few del sols in the country that its true performance potential is unknown.

 

Alex - Hey there. Doing good, Buying a house and starting a new business in the same year can be taxing on the money side of things.

Hopefully the GSR will be track ready in a month, I decided that if I didn't have the time or money this year to race much I would rebuild it, so everything as been off the car and rebuilt, painted, lubricated, etc.

Del Sol - VTEC - I have only raced against two. They were actually the same car owned by different people.

Two years ago at Road Atlanta Mike Cotrell had his Del Sol out and I was about 1/2 second slower then he was - also his home track, not mine.

Same car last year at Sebring Long Course Louis B. (who now owns the Del Sol), I was about 1/2 second faster then him. My home track, not his.

Only at Sebring was I near the Del Sol and Louis B. was still breaking in the car, testing it, so no real good comparison.

My own opinion is that the 1.6 L motor is just too small and the lack of torque kills the cars, but the light weight looks great. Louis B. should have kept it an ITS car and not tried to make it a EP car.

Scott Seck
#38 ITS GSR

Thanks to Carbotech!

 

thanks for the comparisons, in my car(del sol vtec) im running hondata, and im hitting 163@wheels with 116 torque, i havent run into any problems with guys blowing me away down the straights! it all depends who builds and tunes your b16, i can rev this engine all the way to 8800 rpm on stock components(it is balanced)

 

That is pretty good Jim. We could not run Hondata in HC this year or last. How much power do you think that netted you? I need to have my car dynoed. However, a number of tuners in the know that I have raced closely with think I am at about 170 with a totally stock engine with underdrive pulley, FPR, CAI and DC JDM 4-1. Of course the pulley will have to go if I race SCCA. Wonder what kind of difference the extra Teg torque makes? I really like the Del Sol. Hopefully I can race with you one day!

 

Steve Hoffman runs a green GSR in SSCA MARRS series. turns times in the 1:26s at Summit Point. Its fast but a BMW just set the lap record at a 1:24.8

As with anything enough time,money and development can make any car competitive.


Alex.
KRM.