Down shifting to first... man it's tough.
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Down shifting to first... man it's tough.
I noticed at the last auto-x I was in a situation to downshift to first a few times. I usually just left it in second and waited for the power to come on becasue when I tried shifting to first it wasn't very smooth. I know practicing heel-toe would help tremendously in that situation and I'm working on it but what really gets me is that it's pretty difficult to shift into first when the car is rolling. Is this just a case of my first gear syncro showing it's age or is it like that on new cars even? I really want to know if I should look in to replacing the first/second gear set. I've also heard about a lock out mechanism that won't allow you to shift into first or reverse if you are rolling more than 5mph. Is there any truth to that?
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From: boldly scornful of higher mental function, US
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (glagola1)
9 out of 10 instances, you are better off leaving it in 2nd. Try to improve your line to carry more speed out of the corner.
Shifting into first is much easier with rev-matching.
Don't zing the motor.
/disclaimer
Shifting into first is much easier with rev-matching.
Don't zing the motor.
/disclaimer
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (glagola1)
you will have to double clutch & rev match to get into first gear smoothly while rolling at any significant speed. I've shifted smoothly into first gear while decelerating through 40 mph (on purpose) (didn't let the clutch out though 
)
The reason is that its a LOT of work for your syncro to do. When you double clutch and rev match, you spin the input shaft up to speed with the engine, rather then making the syncro do the work.
To test how it works:
drive in 3rd gear at 30 mph. Take your foot off the gas, push the clutch in, and try to push it into first gear. (Don't push too hard, you don't want to break something). Chances are you can't.
now, drive in 3rd gear again at 30 mph. Push the clutch in, take it out of 3rd gear, but leave it in neutral. Let the clutch back out, and then rev it up to about 7000 RPM. Once you get it revved up, push the clutch back in, and go for first gear. It should slide in like butter.
If you're a badass, you'll keep the edge of your right foot on the brake while tapping the gas, so you are doing the double clutching and rev matching while solidly applying the brakes.
Thats the way I have trained myself to do all my downshifts. I now do it without thinking all the time, every time, and it takes me a fraction of a second.
All that being said, that must be a tight *** auto-x course if you have to go down to 1st gear.
)The reason is that its a LOT of work for your syncro to do. When you double clutch and rev match, you spin the input shaft up to speed with the engine, rather then making the syncro do the work.
To test how it works:
drive in 3rd gear at 30 mph. Take your foot off the gas, push the clutch in, and try to push it into first gear. (Don't push too hard, you don't want to break something). Chances are you can't.
now, drive in 3rd gear again at 30 mph. Push the clutch in, take it out of 3rd gear, but leave it in neutral. Let the clutch back out, and then rev it up to about 7000 RPM. Once you get it revved up, push the clutch back in, and go for first gear. It should slide in like butter.
If you're a badass, you'll keep the edge of your right foot on the brake while tapping the gas, so you are doing the double clutching and rev matching while solidly applying the brakes.
Thats the way I have trained myself to do all my downshifts. I now do it without thinking all the time, every time, and it takes me a fraction of a second.
All that being said, that must be a tight *** auto-x course if you have to go down to 1st gear.
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (glagola1)
even with a 3100 lb pig with boost lag I never went down to first. Not only is it unnecessary, but the extra shifting is time wasted that you could be on the gas. work on carrying more speed through a corner and 99% of the time 2nd will be faster.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
Thanks for the nice rev matching description, I'll give it a try.
Naw, I'm serious about those turns! Who ever designed the last course was a sadistic s.o.b. There were two distinct hair pins that required a first gear shift. To carry any speed would mean certain understeer.
Naw, I'm serious about those turns! Who ever designed the last course was a sadistic s.o.b. There were two distinct hair pins that required a first gear shift. To carry any speed would mean certain understeer.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">even with a 3100 lb pig with boost lag I never went down to first. Not only is it unnecessary, but the extra shifting is time wasted that you could be on the gas. work on carrying more speed through a corner and 99% of the time 2nd will be faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not a Honda, right?
While I see way too many Honda owners going to first unnecessarily, there is a time and place when it's appropriate. In my ITR, if I will leave a corner at less than 4500 rpm in second AND there is a straight coming up that will allow me to reach VTEC in second OR there is a long section where I can remain in 1st (below 43mph in my car) then it is very much worth it to go to 1st.
Basically, you can figure that a down and up shift pair is going to waste about 0.5 seconds. If the added acceleration will make you more than 0.5 seconds through the next part then its worth it.
I never double clutch down to first. But I always heel tow and rev match as accurately as possible.
As a general rule I would recommend that you don't try going to first until you have 5 or more events under your belt. I tell all my students to put it in second and leave it there. If I see them going for the shift lever, I slap their hand.
Regards,
Alan
That's not a Honda, right?
While I see way too many Honda owners going to first unnecessarily, there is a time and place when it's appropriate. In my ITR, if I will leave a corner at less than 4500 rpm in second AND there is a straight coming up that will allow me to reach VTEC in second OR there is a long section where I can remain in 1st (below 43mph in my car) then it is very much worth it to go to 1st.
Basically, you can figure that a down and up shift pair is going to waste about 0.5 seconds. If the added acceleration will make you more than 0.5 seconds through the next part then its worth it.
I never double clutch down to first. But I always heel tow and rev match as accurately as possible.
As a general rule I would recommend that you don't try going to first until you have 5 or more events under your belt. I tell all my students to put it in second and leave it there. If I see them going for the shift lever, I slap their hand.
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (00R101)
Well, it seems that everyone I ask is like, "don't put it in first dumbass." so OK, you guys win. Screw first. Slow in, fast out... just like the nasty. 
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (00R101)
Greyout said it very well how at least an ITR feels when attempting to shift it into 1st at speed.
I also agree with 00R101. Not only that, but technically shifting into 1st does not loose you 0.5 seconds outright. All it does is that during the 0.5 seconds you are not accelerating with the force that 2nd gear would deliver. You however are always still rolling at the same speed of your 1-2 shift. So the actual time you loose while shifting is very minimal at best. The loss of time occurs usually because drivers slow down too much for one reason or another while downshifting to 1st (or even while in 1st due to the false illusion of going faster due to the high rpms). That's why only those with a lot of experience can actually gain something from downshifting to 1st gear (in places where it's actually beneficial to do so). At the autox, the ITR with its relatively long 1st gear and peaky power plant will be in situations that favor the use of 1st gear more often than most other cars with possibly shorter 1st gears and/or more torque in the mid range. Having said that, even in such favorable situations, it is a lot easier to loose time and not even realize it by going into 1st gear than it is to actually make up some time.
I also agree with 00R101. Not only that, but technically shifting into 1st does not loose you 0.5 seconds outright. All it does is that during the 0.5 seconds you are not accelerating with the force that 2nd gear would deliver. You however are always still rolling at the same speed of your 1-2 shift. So the actual time you loose while shifting is very minimal at best. The loss of time occurs usually because drivers slow down too much for one reason or another while downshifting to 1st (or even while in 1st due to the false illusion of going faster due to the high rpms). That's why only those with a lot of experience can actually gain something from downshifting to 1st gear (in places where it's actually beneficial to do so). At the autox, the ITR with its relatively long 1st gear and peaky power plant will be in situations that favor the use of 1st gear more often than most other cars with possibly shorter 1st gears and/or more torque in the mid range. Having said that, even in such favorable situations, it is a lot easier to loose time and not even realize it by going into 1st gear than it is to actually make up some time.
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It takes less than a second or two to brake before going into a conner. Wouldn't it be faster to get to the gas instead of shifting into first? I can revmatch into first from neutral without using the clutch, but has to be really precise. If I try to use the clutch before start sliding into the first gear, it won't happened. Dose this happen to any one here?
Modified by leuny98 at 4:31 AM 8/26/2003
Modified by leuny98 at 4:31 AM 8/26/2003
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">even with a 3100 lb pig with boost lag I never went down to first. Not only is it unnecessary, but the extra shifting is time wasted that you could be on the gas. work on carrying more speed through a corner and 99% of the time 2nd will be faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How are you loosing time if you are heal toeing into first while breaking?? You dont, that is the entire point of the heal toe, use the time you are breaking to get into the gear that you want to exit the corner with.
How are you loosing time if you are heal toeing into first while breaking?? You dont, that is the entire point of the heal toe, use the time you are breaking to get into the gear that you want to exit the corner with.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (azroth)
the car elgorey is talking about is a wrx. want to talk about a car that has no go in 2nd gear below 3k rpm?? that's the one. and because it's so big and heavy, it has to go _very_ slowly around turns. yet staying in 2nd is still faster then downshifting to first. why? because you can't put the power down in that tight of a turn anyhow. (even though it's "awd", the front diff is open and those car's _love_ to spin the inside front)
i see a lot of s2000 drivers autocross and they are forever trying to go from one gear to the other and back, or just leave it in 1st for large portions of the course. this generally results in tons of wheelspin, lots of counter-steering, and slow times. many of these guys are _very_ good at downshifting and are relatively good drivers. still, when i finally convince one of them to stay in 2nd for a whole run, they suddenly drop 1 second or more.
i've tried downshifting in my car on the really tight sections of a course. every time i've done it, 1st goes by in a blink. even when i successfully get the tire to hook up, the shift to second comes so quickly that it is a waste. i can see how other car's _might_ be different, but the rev limiter in 1st gear translates to about 4300rpm in 2nd gear. i'm not going to gain much by downshifting if i'm at 3300rpm in 2nd already. and like a said before, that is _assuming_ i can actually get the tires to hook up. just for some numbers to relate to everything, 3300rpm in 2nd gear is 28mph. 28mph in 1st gear is 5800rpm. redline in 1st gets 37mph, 37mph is 4300rpm in 2nd gear. to really make it worth my while to downshift to 1st, i would need to be going around 15mph. and again, keeping that tire from spinning in that tight of turn will likely negate any gearing advantage i may have had anyhow.
nate
i see a lot of s2000 drivers autocross and they are forever trying to go from one gear to the other and back, or just leave it in 1st for large portions of the course. this generally results in tons of wheelspin, lots of counter-steering, and slow times. many of these guys are _very_ good at downshifting and are relatively good drivers. still, when i finally convince one of them to stay in 2nd for a whole run, they suddenly drop 1 second or more.
i've tried downshifting in my car on the really tight sections of a course. every time i've done it, 1st goes by in a blink. even when i successfully get the tire to hook up, the shift to second comes so quickly that it is a waste. i can see how other car's _might_ be different, but the rev limiter in 1st gear translates to about 4300rpm in 2nd gear. i'm not going to gain much by downshifting if i'm at 3300rpm in 2nd already. and like a said before, that is _assuming_ i can actually get the tires to hook up. just for some numbers to relate to everything, 3300rpm in 2nd gear is 28mph. 28mph in 1st gear is 5800rpm. redline in 1st gets 37mph, 37mph is 4300rpm in 2nd gear. to really make it worth my while to downshift to 1st, i would need to be going around 15mph. and again, keeping that tire from spinning in that tight of turn will likely negate any gearing advantage i may have had anyhow.
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (azroth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azroth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How are you loosing time if you are heal toeing into first while breaking?? You dont, that is the entire point of the heal toe, use the time you are breaking to get into the gear that you want to exit the corner with.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You lose time when you upshift back to 2nd. Or are you planning on driving the rest of the course in 1st gear? Skip Barber school approximates an average driver to shift at .5 sec. A race driver with a sequential shifter takes .3 sec. So you are losing around .4 sec every time you downshift to 1st. Are you making that time up in the brief time you are in first?
AutoX braking zones are also very short, so getting off a heel-toe downshift without overslowing the car is difficult.
[pet peeve]Braking is what slows a car down. Breaking is what Im going to do to your arm if you keep mixing the terms up [/peet peeve]
You lose time when you upshift back to 2nd. Or are you planning on driving the rest of the course in 1st gear? Skip Barber school approximates an average driver to shift at .5 sec. A race driver with a sequential shifter takes .3 sec. So you are losing around .4 sec every time you downshift to 1st. Are you making that time up in the brief time you are in first?
AutoX braking zones are also very short, so getting off a heel-toe downshift without overslowing the car is difficult.
[pet peeve]Braking is what slows a car down. Breaking is what Im going to do to your arm if you keep mixing the terms up
[/peet peeve]
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Skip Barber school approximates an average driver to shift at .5 sec. A race driver with a sequential shifter takes .3 sec. So you are losing around .4 sec every time you downshift to 1st. Are you making that time up in the brief time you are in first? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I find this intriguing, but what exactly are you loosing 0.5 seconds in? I think some people are imagining as if an extra shift adds 0.5 to the total time of the run. This would be true only if while in between shifts, the car somehow comes to a complete stop for half a second and only when 2nd gear is engaged does the car start moving forward again. But in fact, I believe in between shifts the car is always going forward at speed, so where is 0.5 seconds being lost? Not only that, but if we’re talking about a situation that really is favorable to a downshift to 1st, even though not accelerating during that half a second it takes to shift it is actually going faster (because of the much better acceleration in the previous shorter gear) than the other car in the taller gear the whole time.
I find this intriguing, but what exactly are you loosing 0.5 seconds in? I think some people are imagining as if an extra shift adds 0.5 to the total time of the run. This would be true only if while in between shifts, the car somehow comes to a complete stop for half a second and only when 2nd gear is engaged does the car start moving forward again. But in fact, I believe in between shifts the car is always going forward at speed, so where is 0.5 seconds being lost? Not only that, but if we’re talking about a situation that really is favorable to a downshift to 1st, even though not accelerating during that half a second it takes to shift it is actually going faster (because of the much better acceleration in the previous shorter gear) than the other car in the taller gear the whole time.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
.... AutoX braking zones are also very short, so getting off a heel-toe downshift without overslowing the car is difficult...
[/peet peeve]</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what I thought. Does it take longer to wait for the rpm to go up 3k for rev match before entering the corner?
.... AutoX braking zones are also very short, so getting off a heel-toe downshift without overslowing the car is difficult...
[/peet peeve]</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what I thought. Does it take longer to wait for the rpm to go up 3k for rev match before entering the corner?
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (Hracer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I find this intriguing, but what exactly are you loosing 0.5 seconds in? I think some people are imagining as if an extra shift adds 0.5 to the total time of the run. </TD></TR></TABLE>
good catch Alex, I meant to say that its .4 sec you are not accelerating, which you are right, on a autoX course will not translate to .4 sec lost time.
good catch Alex, I meant to say that its .4 sec you are not accelerating, which you are right, on a autoX course will not translate to .4 sec lost time.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
[QUOTE=elgorey]
[pet peeve]Braking is what slows a car down. Breaking is what Im going to do to your arm if you keep mixing the terms up [/peet peeve][QUOTE]
Congratulations, you now can tech the 4th grade
Anyway, it all really depends on you gearing, tires, and power output.
[pet peeve]Braking is what slows a car down. Breaking is what Im going to do to your arm if you keep mixing the terms up [/peet peeve][QUOTE]
Congratulations, you now can tech the 4th grade
Anyway, it all really depends on you gearing, tires, and power output.
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From: MN
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (elgorey)
I don't know what you guys are driving, but If I'm not in VTEC I'm not moving. I'm running a del sol si, and in second gear if I'm not above 5000k rpm I have practicaly no power at all. Hell, I barely have enough power with my little motor to spin my autocross rubber in first gear. I've always found I do best when I keep my car in VTEC whenever accelerating. That means first gear quite a bit on tight courses. The last course I ran at was so tight there were only 2 places on the entire track where I needed to shift into second. and the same went for pro driver in an integra racing also, who I was very close to for time. So I think a lot of it is where and how the track is, along with what motor you have.
If I ever swap in a B16, wich won't even kick me out of my class (dsp), I'm gonna have to learn how to drive all over again.
If I ever swap in a B16, wich won't even kick me out of my class (dsp), I'm gonna have to learn how to drive all over again.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (drkarrow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drkarrow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but If I'm not in VTEC I'm not moving....del sol si...I have practicaly no power at all.....little motor .... keep my car in VTEC whenever accelerating. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You really need to attend an autocross school. Seriously. VTEC != Fast. Leave it in 2nd gear and learn to carry momentum through the course.
You really need to attend an autocross school. Seriously. VTEC != Fast. Leave it in 2nd gear and learn to carry momentum through the course.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (.RJ)
When I was autocrossing my Sol Si both in sp and stock I ran most course's in 2nd gear, in fact ususally after the start I would short sift right into second . This included the Pro Solo I went to at petersburg and some very long course's that we setup @ Laurinburg that were in the 90sec range of length. Of course the main trick to doing this was that I stopped using the brakes
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From: MN
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You really need to attend an autocross school. Seriously. VTEC != Fast. Leave it in 2nd gear and learn to carry momentum through the course.</TD></TR></TABLE>
been there. (autocross school) many years ago.
OK, lets go through this. carry speed through corner. yep I do that. Coming out of corner I can be at 5500k rpm in 1st, or under 4krpm in second. If put foot to floor in second, car slowly speeds up. If I controll the throttle in first, not spinning my tires, I accelerate fast.
For most people staying in 2nd is best. But if you know how to shift while decelerating, and can controll your acceleration without excesseve wheel-spin, and can shift fast, I say first is faster. If there's a little straight before the next corner I will be going faster before I brake for the next corner if I use first. And I do try multiple ways quite often. I'll also use first gear thru corners, and controll the throttle and controll wheel spin. a lot of people can't controll there throtle very well, and for them 2nd is better because it's harder to screw up.
Probably a different story for people who actually have power in second, but as I said I barely have power to spin the wheels in first. And as I said, I usualy am running very closely behind very experienced drivers running ITR's in DSP, and you should know that a del sol si is not on par with an ITR.
also here in minnesota we run some very tight courses. I raced in Indianapolis this month and there was only one hairpin in wich I shifted to first.
And mista bone. I drive very hard. I blew up my first motor at 75k miles. I bent a rod. That's NA with synthetic oil changed every 3k miles. When they put in the new motor I had them change out my original clutch. I bent a rod before I even wore out a clutch, and my tranny's fine so for. But I wouldn't be surprized if it went, that comes with the territory when racing.
You really need to attend an autocross school. Seriously. VTEC != Fast. Leave it in 2nd gear and learn to carry momentum through the course.</TD></TR></TABLE>
been there. (autocross school) many years ago.
OK, lets go through this. carry speed through corner. yep I do that. Coming out of corner I can be at 5500k rpm in 1st, or under 4krpm in second. If put foot to floor in second, car slowly speeds up. If I controll the throttle in first, not spinning my tires, I accelerate fast.
For most people staying in 2nd is best. But if you know how to shift while decelerating, and can controll your acceleration without excesseve wheel-spin, and can shift fast, I say first is faster. If there's a little straight before the next corner I will be going faster before I brake for the next corner if I use first. And I do try multiple ways quite often. I'll also use first gear thru corners, and controll the throttle and controll wheel spin. a lot of people can't controll there throtle very well, and for them 2nd is better because it's harder to screw up.
Probably a different story for people who actually have power in second, but as I said I barely have power to spin the wheels in first. And as I said, I usualy am running very closely behind very experienced drivers running ITR's in DSP, and you should know that a del sol si is not on par with an ITR.
also here in minnesota we run some very tight courses. I raced in Indianapolis this month and there was only one hairpin in wich I shifted to first.
And mista bone. I drive very hard. I blew up my first motor at 75k miles. I bent a rod. That's NA with synthetic oil changed every 3k miles. When they put in the new motor I had them change out my original clutch. I bent a rod before I even wore out a clutch, and my tranny's fine so for. But I wouldn't be surprized if it went, that comes with the territory when racing.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (drkarrow)
Here in Cincy, we have some TIGHT courses. Which is how I broke the 1-2 shifter fork.
4000 rpm in FIRST gear through the last 2 hairpins on a old course.
4000 rpm in FIRST gear through the last 2 hairpins on a old course.
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Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (drkarrow)
Imagine two cars rolling side by side at 20mph, the one on the left is in the powerband in 1st, the one on the right is out of the powerband in 2nd. They both floor it at the same time. The car on the left will pull ahead first, then during the shift, the car on the right will gain, but how much?
I think it all depends on how far into first you would put the car. If you are in first and all you have is 500rpm at the top of the gear before you have to shift, then it isn't worth it. If you have a good 3000rpm of first available, then it might be an advantage.
Sounds like some serious testing is required.
I think it all depends on how far into first you would put the car. If you are in first and all you have is 500rpm at the top of the gear before you have to shift, then it isn't worth it. If you have a good 3000rpm of first available, then it might be an advantage.
Sounds like some serious testing is required.
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From: MN
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (Floyd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Floyd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Imagine two cars rolling side by side at 20mph, the one on the left is in the powerband in 1st, the one on the right is out of the powerband in 2nd. They both floor it at the same time. The car on the left will pull ahead first, then during the shift, the car on the right will gain, but how much?
I think it all depends on how far into first you would put the car. If you are in first and all you have is 500rpm at the top of the gear before you have to shift, then it isn't worth it. If you have a good 3000rpm of first available, then it might be an advantage.
Sounds like some serious testing is required.</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly what I was thinking. There's a point where if your below X rpm in second, its probably better to shift to first.
I don't know what rpm, because I rarely actually look. or you cou could say it like: If your only going into first gear for less than 2 seconds before shifting to second don't bother.
I think it all depends on how far into first you would put the car. If you are in first and all you have is 500rpm at the top of the gear before you have to shift, then it isn't worth it. If you have a good 3000rpm of first available, then it might be an advantage.
Sounds like some serious testing is required.</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly what I was thinking. There's a point where if your below X rpm in second, its probably better to shift to first.
I don't know what rpm, because I rarely actually look. or you cou could say it like: If your only going into first gear for less than 2 seconds before shifting to second don't bother.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 959
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From: Warren, RI, USA
Re: Down shifting to first... man it's tough. (drkarrow)
Wouldn't both cars need to be driving side by side in 2nd?
One would downshift into first and then back up to 2nd and the other would stay in 2nd?
On my GSR I would get 2.1 (from 3500-8000rpm) seconds worth of acceleration out of first gear and my shifts take .5 seconds. I spend 1 second shifting to get 2.1 seconds of higher acceleration for a net of 1.1 seconds of peak. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
I see guys trying to downshift into first all the time, and it's nothing but trouble. I'll stick to 2nd, thanks.
Cheers,
Roy
One would downshift into first and then back up to 2nd and the other would stay in 2nd?
On my GSR I would get 2.1 (from 3500-8000rpm) seconds worth of acceleration out of first gear and my shifts take .5 seconds. I spend 1 second shifting to get 2.1 seconds of higher acceleration for a net of 1.1 seconds of peak. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
I see guys trying to downshift into first all the time, and it's nothing but trouble. I'll stick to 2nd, thanks.
Cheers,
Roy