what is the company called that does this my friend has them and i cant get a hold of him...

but these brakes work pretty awesome and i want to try and get these for my R..

 

There is a place hear in Ft. Worth, Tx that does cryo treating. I have a friend who had his rods cryo treated there and they are a little closer. The name of the place is Automotive Machine. I can get you the number tomorrow if you want.

 

umm heat treatments i've heard of but cryogenic treatments???

Cmon guys back to physics.. Molecules are strongest when they are most stable. By heating up metal, we introduce free energy into metal particles effectively allowing them to move. Now once moving we slowly cool the metal which allows the particles to arrange themselves into a more uniform structure = better van der valls bonds e.t.c. (same principle as what I'm doing in genetics) So theoretically, allowing repeating this process allows the metal to be forged allowing "settling" of metal particles into their most desired position = strength. So cooling?? hmm this kinda says to me that no free energy is introduced so how do you re-arrange particles? Please someone explain the theory??????

 

Doesn't really explain the concept but the site above says:

They resist cracking, warping and fading
Rotors last 2-3 times longer
They stop consistently, lap after lap

 

I had my new set of rotors frozen. They have warped a lot faster than the stock rotors did. I'm not convinced. Here's a link to the company in my area that did them. It cost $50 for the pair.

http://nitrofreeze.com/index.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00ITR#756 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had my new set of rotors frozen. They have warped a lot faster than the stock rotors did. I'm not convinced. Here's a link to the company in my area that did them. It cost $50 for the pair.

http://nitrofreeze.com/index.html</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sure they warped? Almost every instance of warping rotors was actually material transfer from the brake pads to the rotors, causing hot/cold spots.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jansenrw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">umm heat treatments i've heard of but cryogenic treatments???

Cmon guys back to physics.. Molecules are strongest when they are most stable. By heating up metal, we introduce free energy into metal particles effectively allowing them to move. Now once moving we slowly cool the metal which allows the particles to arrange themselves into a more uniform structure = better van der valls bonds e.t.c. (same principle as what I'm doing in genetics) So theoretically, allowing repeating this process allows the metal to be forged allowing "settling" of metal particles into their most desired position = strength. So cooling?? hmm this kinda says to me that no free energy is introduced so how do you re-arrange particles? Please someone explain the theory?????? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The site does clearly state that the process involves controlled cooling & HEATING....

 

The most simple explanation:

Molecules have gaps inbetween them, those gaps represent weeknesses in the metel. These gaps are not uniform, some are larger than others. By slowly cooling down the metal you slow down the movements of the molecules and the molecules close the gaps in between themselves. Once they are heated or "free energy" is introduced to the molecules they spread apart in a uniform fashion with equal gaps inbeween them, creating a stronger metal.

The best way to imagine Cryo-treating:

Picture a busy mall with people walking around everywhere, some spots are more crowded than others. The people represent the molecules and the spaces in between them represent weekness in the metel. When the metal is slowly cooled you gather all those people and group them together as close as possible. When the metal is heated, imagine the people grouped together each taking one step outward away from each other, all of them together and in unison until they cover the mall end to end. Now all the molecules are evenly spaced, there are no weak spots, heat dissipates faster, etc. By Cryo-treating you create a more uniform molecular struture therefore creating stronger metal.

 

I have heard good things about it. One of the guys at my work (I work at a Yamaha motorcycle dealership) was a mechanic for the Honda race team in japan (HRC) and they would cryo their tires on their race bikes. They lasted twice as long.

 

You can cryo-treat damn near anything and enhance the molecular structure of the material.

By cryo-treating tires they will last longer and be more resistant to the effects of excessive heating.

 

I'm still lost on this one. Are they Heated First? Heated to get all the Spaces and GAPS Uniform and then cooled (in a controled Environment) to hold that uniformity and pull it closer together?

Is that how I am understanding this process?

 

Apologies, I was not very clear.

First you go though the Cryo-treatment to re-arrange the molecular struture. After the cryo-treatment the metal is then heat-treated for hardness and then tempered to reduce brittleness.

 

i hear good things about it too , old racers trick from what i hear. i was told to get my gears and syncros cry frozen to help them , i have a habit of shattering gears and syncro sets.

 

We have a cryo system at my work right now. We deal with inspecting metal for car parts and From what my boss was explaining to me they treatment does a lot more to the crystaline structure than you would think. I work 1 block south of the track here in indy and all the race teams use this treatment. I could get a more specific answer and maybe post some of the metalurgical data if someone wants it.

 

Yes I'm sure they warped. My daily commute is about 30 miles on the Mass Pike. Average speed 85-90 mph. Very little use of the brakes. When I get on the pike, there is no sign of warpage in the brake rotor, when I exit the pike they are out of round. The stock rotor did this as well, that is why I took a gamble on they cryo treatment. The stock rotors took longer to behave like this. I should have done a rockwell test before and after treatment.

 

If you're actually warping your brakes, something is wrong. I'll bet money you have other issues. The chances of you warping a rotor on this car are very small.

Warren

 

It's been checked by Acura and by 2, highly trusted Honda techs. Everything appears to be ok.

 

Anyone else has an opinion on Cryogenic treatment in general?

Does it work or is it a bunch of BS?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nikos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does it work or is it a bunch of BS?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it may work... but it not worth the money on 'wear' items.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by "Old Man" Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it may work... but it not worth the money on 'wear' items.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well put. While Indy may use it; we are not close to pushing the limits that Indy cars push.

Might as well, just put the parts in your freezer, will probably do them just as good

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it may work... but it not worth the money on 'wear' items.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onyx00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Might as well, just put the parts in your freezer, will probably do them just as good </TD></TR></TABLE>

The above (onyx00's) was a very ignorant comment.
Ignorant meaning you're unaware of the facts/circumstances!

I used to run Porterfiels R4 (race) pads at all four corners of my ITR (actually started with the R4E (endurance) pads, and found that those (especially the R4E) would really wear the rotors badly/quickly when used on the street.
After switching to cryo'd rotors the "wear" of the rotors was substantially lessened due to their increased hardness and therefore I didn't have to change them out anywhere near as often.

While getting some brake parts for my latest ITR I was planning on getting Andie's VR pads for the front and GT pads for the rear. Due to the otential "unfriendliness" of the VR pads during street use I'm probably going to be sending the new rotors out to get treated just so I don't have to work on the car (in this respect) for as long as possible in the future.

If you were going to be using stock pads then I doubt it would be helpful, but once you start pushing the limits metalurgicly (sp) then it's best to do everything possible.

http://www.fountainheadcryo.com/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The above (onyx00's) was a very ignorant comment. Ignorant meaning you're unaware of the facts/circumstances!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ed, he was joking....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would really wear the rotors badly/quickly when used on the street.
After switching to cryo'd rotors .... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well you could solve the problem (worn rotors) by not introducing it in the first place (race pads on the street) instead of with expensive rotors

There are some great street pads available now that will hold up to abuse at the traack as well that will not destroy your rotors, especially if you're not tracking the car often. Carbotech bobcat or panther plus, hawk hp+, and i'm sure there's plenty of others that work great.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There are some great street pads available now that will hold up to abuse at the traack as well that will not destroy your rotors, especially if you're not tracking the car often. Carbotech bobcat or panther plus, hawk hp+, and i'm sure there's plenty of others that work great.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Also would like to add Axxis Ultimates are very nice street/ track pads imo.

 

You know, there are people that say they have fun "working" on their cars.
Even people that say they wouldn't want to buy a modded car because they want to "experience the joy" of doing it themselves.

I'm not necessarily one of "those guys".
Mostly because it has become increasingly more difficult for me to find a place to do so.
Therefore, I like to install things that will last as long as possible given the extreme circumstances I'm likely to put them through.
Damn, I need an oil change lately, too.