my current auto situation is such that will probably force me to sell my beloved 240 and purchase a tow vehicle for the miata. now i can't be driving aound in a big truck 24/7 as i would go insane. driving around the miata on the street on a semi-daily basis isn't much of an option either. seeing as how i've always loved nissan, have previously owned a Z car, and have seen how fast, successful, great looking, and great sounding the old 240Z's are, i wasthinking of picking one up. my hope would be to drive it as an ongoing project, and in a couple years when i'm ready to move into something faster than SM it would become the next w2w car.

anybody have any direct experience with a datsun 240 on the track or otherwise? any suggestions on where to start the research process? any suggestions on where to find one for sale (autotrader only goes back to like 1980)?

 

Why not keep the 240 as a daily driver?

 

So you want to have a racecar, AND a 240 to build into a track car?

<monty python> RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY! </monty python>

Too many projects (for me, at least) means that none of them get done well, and ALL of them are half assed.
I have seen a few in ITS, so think that once upon a time they were competitive there. I am thinking not so much now. Plenty of swap opportunities, especially with cross-flow heads from later models, but donor cars are getting scarce.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anybody have any direct experience with a datsun 240 on the track or otherwise? any suggestions on where to start the research process? any suggestions on where to find one for sale (autotrader only goes back to like 1980)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use a '76 280 as my daily driver. The engine is solid as a rock, and it's totally dependable (knock on wood). The problem, as I'm sure you know, is the rust. Mine was kept in a heated garage for the first 20+ years of its life, so the body was in very good shape when I started using it. The metal on those cars is a ticking time bomb though, it's only a matter of time before it becomes a rust bucket. I've only had it on the track one time (BeaveRun earlier this year). In stock form, it isn't a particularly good track car. However, it doesn't take much to make them significantly faster.

The 240 is faster than the 280, but both are much better than the 260. The 240 is carbed, the 280 is injected - but the technology was still pretty new back then. The emission controls on the 280 can give you problems, again, because it was state of the art at the time.

There are several Z clubs and forums on the web. Start with http://www.zcar.com and work from there. There are TONS of used Zs in their classified section. Ebay usually has a few at any given time as well.

Hope this helps.

Matt

 

wait.......the 240SX or the 240Z as a daily driver??

the 240Z will be a daily driver along with the tow vehicle. being the person i am the 240Z will never stay stock, and as long as i'm upgrading it, i might as well upgrade it with a goal in mind.

the spec miata would be sold once (if) the 240Z became the dedicated racer.

i understand that during a winter sometime it's likely that the datsun would need just about every body panel removed, repaired/replaced, and repainted to prevent rusting.

i just think these things are so friggin sweet.

 

It gets a surprising amount of attention on the road. I get lots of waves or thumbs up, or people stopping to tell me that they used to have one, but it rusted. If you want to modify it right, look for the Japanese Z432 engine. IIRC the name comes from the factory modifications - 4 carb, 3 valve per cylinder, 2 cam. The engines were in the "long nose" or "G nose" Zs that they used for police cars in Japan. Making a stock 280 faster is as simple as changing the pistons. They purposely went to low compression pistons to meet their emissions goal, and it robs the car of a lot of power. If you want to increase power though, you HAVE to do the brakes. The stock brakes suck...

Matt

 

If you're going to race the miata... and buy a tow vehicle - keep the 240sx you already have as a daily driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you're going to race the miata... and buy a tow vehicle - keep the 240sx you already have as a daily driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i would except i'm sick of the payments, although they are minimal ($250). the 240SX will be sold and the $ from it will be used to purchase a truck for cash.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would except i'm sick of the payments, although they are minimal ($250). the 240SX will be sold and the $ from it will be used to purchase a truck for cash.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're set on selling it... i'm sure you could pick up a 90-96 accord for pretty cheap - very reliable cars, would be a nice daily driver.

 

you're right, i'm sure i could get a nice cheap reliable accord if i wanted. i just don't know if i would enjoy driving it or not.

the source of motivation (not the dude in the chair) :

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you're right, i'm sure i could get a nice cheap reliable accord if i wanted. i just don't know if i would enjoy driving it or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Two race cars is a bad, bad idea.

And the 94-97 accords are actually quite fun to drive

 

no no.......i wouldn't have 2 race cars. i'd sell the miata once the datsun was destined for track duty.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no no.......i wouldn't have 2 race cars. i'd sell the miata once the datsun was destined for track duty.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You realize the miata makes more sense right?

 

yeah.........i know. miata's are FAR cheaper to campaign, more competitive class, etc.

it's most likely a pipe dream that'll never happen.........but i've just been wanting an old datsun for about 4 years now.

 

For those that really liked most of the pic of the 2 Z's

 

wow, i'm impressed.

clicky clicky

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91-Si-Ken &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For those that really liked most of the pic of the 2 Z's

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You cut out the best part you fool!

 

I have a little seat time in an ITS 280Z and it wasn't a lot to write home about compared to more modern cars. Being an IT car restricted to limited upgrades, it was hampered by the brake and compression issues Matt mentioned. That particular car has been off the track for awhile and could be had for a song I am sure but would never be a streetable option. A well sorted 240Z can be very competitive in ITS and even dominant at some tracks but the 260s and 280s are behind the 8-ball a bit.

All my experience of myself or friends with Datsuns of that era is mondo rust and you live in the north lands as well. The problem is the rust free southern or western cars have either been picked over or will cost a mint so you'd better be a dedicated Z-car guy to want to keep one alive on the street. That may take more money and effort than you want to spend if you are not a hard core Z guy.

What about getting another Miata for the street and put some mods on it? You can find them for $2500-4000 (one of my tech bought a very clean one last week) which will only get you not much of a project in a low rust Z car. I have always been a proponent of your daily driver street car so your general feel and natural instictive responses in the racecar are tuned from your street use. You can have a nice daily driver Miata but not have to deal with the open exhaust, roll cage, race seat, etc. from the racecar.

 

Not that ditching the Miata makes more sense than any other option but if you have to make the next street car decision based on the assumption that it will eventually end up on the track, the LAST thing I would recommend is committing to a vintage program. Not kidding - the "real" Z-cars are getting scarce and are tough to make competitive in ITS. They also aren't going to be a ton faster than the Miata.

I would recommend (you asked) that you bail on the assumptions driving the current thinking and get that Accord...

...or you could start shopping for a tired out e36 325is.

K

 

Travis:

Regular Autocrosser and MC member Jerry Fisher has been trying to sell his 240Z for some time. Look him up in the directory. Don't remember what he wants for it. It's in great condition, garaged during the winter, and recently has had a ton of work done to it, including a rather nicely done fresh paint job. No rust. It does have a roll bar installed, but I believe it's just a bolt in, so it could be removed. Let me know if you can't find his number.

 

Sounds like you're in for a big financial committment with two race cars.

Cal - Who will wait until a turn-key SM car is done over the next year

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

...or you could start shopping for a tired out e36 325is.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looking for a 325i/is is where I started shopping when I got my very cheap M3. Take a realistic look at your budget and the cost of a Z car that will get you driving what you want. Then shop the wide range and see what kind of other car that can buy you. You might be surprised. E30 325s are extremely solid cars that can be had very cheap around $2000+ and E36s generally start at $5000+.

 

Personally, I like the BMW E30 body over the E36 body...and a '90-'91 E30 325is what I'd be after if I was looking for a RWD sports coupe for a daily driver (Miatas are a no go for my size frame, plus I'd rather a coupe than a convertable or roadster). I also like the Z series Datsuns'...though looking at the nest of plumbing under the hood and around the engine gives me second thoughts. Datsun 510 are pretty nice too...and not too expensive.

 

If you want to check out how competative the Z cars were, do some research into Bob Ssharp, and BRE (Brock Racing Enterprise)

Z cars are well known for one bad thing. And that is RUST. If you can get yourself any car that has been in the west coast for its entire life then you should be fine.

Do an google image search and you will find many pics of Z-cars. If you get a 260 block with a round port 240 head, round port headers, and tripple webber carbs youll be happy, and leav ANY legal spec miata in the dust. You would have to run SPO if you were running SCCA, but it would be worth it. And if you ever need ANY parts at all, I have a shop full of Datsun Zcar parts.

Oh BTW we race one of the origonal BRE Datsun Roadsters (If any of you know what that is) down here in florida.

You might just be able to say that I am Honda-Tech's Datsun guy.

 

holy crap, an original roadster??? that's friggin sweet.

my friend who now runs SM won a championship or two in his roadster. i'll give a more complete reply when i'm away from work.