ok.. after going through my 2nd engine.. its time to break in another 1...

Now prior beliefs dictated that to initiate a proper seal from the honeing of the block to the piston rings, non-friction modifie oil should be used i.e. crappy mineral stuff - cheap and nasty.. Now I have just spoken to some honda guys here and they think that you should infact use fully synthetic motul oil to break in the engine.
They believe that the bearings will thank-you for it and so far they claim that none of their cars have compression issues.

the reason why i'm posting this is that my current new engine is from spoon japan and I wish to break in the engine to my utmost best.

Now for the theory... I guess the mineral and synthetic side of things both make sense!!! As for the other factors... i do believe in a 1000 mile break in period constantly varying the revs. I have also read the mtoman method i.e. taking it to a race track and givin it the oll strap... so I know this has been discussed but what do you think about using synthetic and the contrast of the two methods of breaking the engine in????

Jansen

 

if you think that's extreme, give this a look

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I don't know what to say. In a modified or raced engine you'll probably not see 100k out of it anyway.

 

thanks tyhts the article i was referring too regarding the race track thing... anyway the spoon engine is just for my dailydriver, the other engine will be for race!!!

 

ah okay.

I would suggest changing the oil frequently. Part of your argument I could see, since most engines are so precise (especially Honda engines from the factory). That being said, every engine builder I've seen has always used a dino oil to break in the engine for proper ring seating. Every one of them.

For bearing life, the best thing you could do is frequently change the oil. At the very early intervals, 20mi, 50mi (100?), you get the idea...

 

hey whats the composition o0f the dyno oil????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That being said, every engine builder I've seen has always used a dino oil to break in the engine for proper ring seating. Every one of them.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dino oil is made by rendering dinosaur fat.

Seriously though, I agree with the "push it hard" theory. If there is something wrong with your engine taking it easy won't fix it. The key is to change your oil VERY often at first. If you are going to give it a break in session I think you should change the oil immediately after.

 

You could also send the oil in for analysis after each change. That would tell you when the levels of various contaminents are starting to settle down.

 

honda motors daily driven will easily last 200k with proper maintenance.

honda isn't pouring synthetic oil into new cars off the assembly line so i see no need to use it with a rebuilt motor.

for anyone who's had the pleasure of working at a dealership (college days), the cars are beat to death by the car valet's, mechanics and salesmen before they reach their new owners.

 

it's funny you mention that, because Mr. Moto in the article states something along the lines of:

Long-shoremen are actually helping vehicles when they drive them like crazy off the car freighter into port.

 

i guess everyone has a different arguement or point of view.

i worked at an acura, ford and volkswagen/buick dealership back in the day when i was in college. always as the car valet which was incredibly easy work at the time.

the cars are just beat to death when they're prepped for delivery after sold. mechanics, salesmen, car valet guys, detailers all have their hands on them. what the guys on the freight ships or docks do to the cars is nothing compared to the dealership people. my point is, even with all this beating on new cars that happens, most honda motor easily last 200k with proper maintenance.

i used to beat up my old accord auto to death since new and got 185k out of the motor with no issues until i swapped an h22a a few years back. and the accord motor didn't see consistent oil changes by any means.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you think that's extreme, give this a look

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I don't know what to say. In a modified or raced engine you'll probably not see 100k out of it anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I broke in my last rebuild using that method and it never burned a drop of oil.

Now prior to that, I babied a rebuild by a Honda tech and it burned a quart of oil a week hence me having to rebuild it again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you think that's extreme, give this a look

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I don't know what to say. In a modified or raced engine you'll probably not see 100k out of it anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't know about using synthetic to break it in -- i've never heard of that before. but the article makes a lot of sense, and so does the quote about a modified and racing engine not seeing 100K.

i guess it'll all depend on the individual, but take care of your vehicle properly, and it shouldn't have any problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tweakmeister &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you think that's extreme, give this a look

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I don't know what to say. In a modified or raced engine you'll probably not see 100k out of it anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I used this method on my motor and it runs perfect. I did use non-detergent oil the first 150miles then switched to regular 5w30. So far so good and I also broke it in with 9psi of boost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2R714 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I used this method on my motor and it runs perfect. I did use non-detergent oil the first 150miles then switched to regular 5w30. So far so good and I also broke it in with 9psi of boost. </TD></TR></TABLE>

pardon me for being stupid, but what exactly is non-detergent oil(what brand, grade) and why would it be beneficial to use non-detergent oil for a break in? TIA

 

you use convential non detergent oil so the rings and the cyl walls can "break in" non detergent means there is no additives to keep particles suspended in the oil so therefore your motor can wear together and essentially break in.

the use of synthetic oil IS STUPID for break in and those guys must have been smoking crack because synthetic oil will not allow your rings to properly set.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by visi0n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you use convential non detergent oil so the rings and the cyl walls can "break in" non detergent means there is no additives to keep particles suspended in the oil so therefore your motor can wear together and essentially break in.

the use of synthetic oil IS STUPID for break in and those guys must have been smoking crack because synthetic oil will not allow your rings to properly set.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Last engine I built/broke in was a B18C5, Darton solid deck sleeves, 84.5mm bore, Endyn pistons, etc.

Used cheap Chevron oil, let the rings seat and burned off excess oil in cylinders, then drove it under 4k rpm for 200 miles. Then starting hitting 2 psi boost, then 3 psi, then 4, and at about 800 miles, starting boosting 7 psi.

Boosting helps seat the rings also.

The same car, now about 5 months and 5500 miles later, daily driven ALL over, burned VERY little oil for being a sleeved block and compression numbers stay constant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Emerika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The same car, now about 5 months and 5500 miles later, daily driven ALL over, burned VERY little oil for being a sleeved block and compression numbers stay constant. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Just out of curiosity, why would a sleeved block be expected to burn more oil than normal?

 

I have Darton Closed Deck sleeves and I don't burn any oil.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2R714 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have Darton Closed Deck sleeves and I don't burn any oil.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not even at start up???

Oil isn't burned while driving/running hard, but it is under initial start up. That's why sleeved engine with forged pistons, or just forged internal engines anyway, should wait until engine is at operating temp before driving.

The forged pistons don't "form" like cast pistons do, allowing the piston to wall clearance to remain larger until it gets hotter.

Confusing stuff, but whatever.

But as far as breaking in goes, I always go by this....break it like how you're going to drive it. After the initial start-up and check over and everything is good, drive it.

If you want the engine to last 200k miles, then drive it easy. If it's a race engine, break it in hard

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Trey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I broke in my last rebuild using that method and it never burned a drop of oil.

Now prior to that, I babied a rebuild by a Honda tech and it burned a quart of oil a week hence me having to rebuild it again. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I did something close, but not quite as harsh. But the motor sealed up fine and everything seated. Doesn't burn any oil at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Emerika &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

not even at start up???

Oil isn't burned while driving/running hard, but it is under initial start up. That's why sleeved engine with forged pistons, or just forged internal engines anyway, should wait until engine is at operating temp before driving.

The forged pistons don't "form" like cast pistons do, allowing the piston to wall clearance to remain larger until it gets hotter.

Confusing stuff, but whatever.

But as far as breaking in goes, I always go by this....break it like how you're going to drive it. After the initial start-up and check over and everything is good, drive it.

If you want the engine to last 200k miles, then drive it easy. If it's a race engine, break it in hard </TD></TR></TABLE>

No I check my oil every other day and I havent lost any. I usually let the car warm up for a minute or so, then baby it shifting at 3k or lower until the coolant temp is up to normal operating temps then all is a go. I have been very happy with my setup.

 

ahh crap looks like i'm back to square 1 again!!! I think I'll take your advice!!!

 

oh and thanks tweakmister... what you posted really made sense!!!! Props to ya!!!

 

that's what we're here for. glad we could all be of help.

 

if u use sythetic to break into the engin u gonna have to use it 4eva. u can mix sythetic with non sythetic. i personally wouldnt use sythetic cuz it burns alot faster. but yo engine do wut u want.