i need a helmet and i dont want to shell out 700 for the arai SA rated, does shoei make one? i only see M.

i know bell makes some affordable ones but to tell you the truth i dont really trust the quality. any other suggestions would help me out. thanks

 

thats pretty retarded thinking. theres nothing not to trust about bell, simpson or any other domestic helmet brand. and no, shoei does not make sa rated helmets, at least available here. go ahead and pay for JDM bling, its your head.

 

Careful there, Tyson - I went to a lot of trouble this spring to find out of Shoei was STILL making SA helmets. My last one (SA95) was superb and I did a buttload of research before making my decision - with insider data on both Bell and Simpson helmets informing my decision.

Unfortunately, they are not currently importing SA buckets to the states. I would use a Bell today but unless I could get that same quality dope on Brand S, I still wouldn't buy one.

A Japanese name isn't enough to make blingage.

K

 

what makes shoei any better.

 

wow, sorry to offend any "domestic" helmet owners but from my experience with very few exceptions, you get what you pay for... if arai is charging 700$ for their SA spec helmet and bell has one for 300$ my first assumtion is that the bell is using inferior materials, will not be as comfortable, or fit as well... sorry but bling has nothing to do with it, it has to do with my ******* skull.


Modified by euclid at 10:48 PM 8/19/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what makes shoei any better.</TD></TR></TABLE>

At the time, the consistency of their resin/fiber matrix layup, the addition of kevlar, the rigidity of their shell (flex a Simpson shell some time), the optical quality and thickness of their shield, the quality of hardware, finish quality, the lack of stupid vent holes (aka stress risers), and the fact that they didn't build structure into the places that Snell hit with its rigs while leaving other areas thinner - so they could brag about having the lightest helmets on the market.

I will qualify this with the statement that, while I have every confidence that this information was accurate 10 years ago, I do NOT have any information on the current state of things. I would just need to be convinced that something had changed...

K

 

then i retract my statement of JDM bling. but i full confidence in simpson and bell race products.

 

is an sa helmet required for any situation besides competive wheel-to-wheel roadracing? i am really just concerned with auto-x and tracks such as lime rock for lapping? would an m-rated suit me better? thanks

 

all west coast track day clubs do not require SA rated helmets. nor does NASA HPDE, nor does SCCA solo2. other track schools you have to check on, i have heard some on the east do require it. others here on this board will demand it as minimum safety, i believe M rated is fine if you dont have a rollcage in the car. its not like an M rated helmet isnt designed for crash protection...

 

Why would you not trust the oldest active name in the business? I only wear Bell and they are just fine. There are Simpson helmets out there that are also reasonably priced. Keep this in mind-you only have one chance with the object above your shoulders. Protect it well, price should not the primary consideration. THis is true for all safety equipment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by euclid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is an sa helmet required for any situation besides competive wheel-to-wheel roadracing? i am really just concerned with auto-x and tracks such as lime rock for lapping? would an m-rated suit me better? thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

SA rated helmets are not required for all events, your best bet is to check with the clubs you'll be running with. For SCCA autocross, you can use M or SA rated helmets. That being said, I only recommend full face helmets, especially if you are going to do any HPDE's, Solo I, etc.

Check this out for more details/recommendations... http://www.soloracer.com/helmettech.html

Whatever you do, don't buy a cheap open face helmet if you plan to do high speed events. I saw several people using those $70 open face HJC's at the last BMW school I went to. I can't believe people use that kind of helmet at a high speed event.

 

i am not considering an open-face, i have used them as loners at auto-x, useless imho considering my fear is mainly hitting my face on the steering wheel.

i have not lapped at a track yet but i plan on it for next season, again, would a track require that i use am sa rated helmet? or is m allowed in a car? i have a rollbar now but a full cage is definately a posibility.

i cant image a helmet that can take an impact with the road at over 100mph, i.e. motorcycle helmet, would fail w/in a car. but i could be wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by euclid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i cant image a helmet that can take an impact with the road at over 100mph, i.e. motorcycle helmet, would fail w/in a car. but i could be wrong.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Motorcycle helmets are made to be thrown away after they make any contact with the tarmac. When you wear a helmet in a car, you're supposed to be able to reuse the helmet. I'll stop here, since I don't have any technical info to back this up, but if you think about it, it makes sense. Think of all the hard/semi hard objects you could possibly hit in a car, in a collision, especially with stock seatbelts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you wear a helmet in a car, you're supposed to be able to reuse the helmet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

what ****** idiot told you this! get into an impact in any helmet, any situation you must REPLACE it or have it checked out. they are only a one time use device!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what ****** idiot told you this!</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL .. no joke. SA helmets are tested (and I would guess designed) differently for the kind of impacts that might happen with race car use. They are also made of fire retardant material. Otherwise, should be pretty much the same as M.

More and more HPDEs are only allowing SA helmets. I would not get an M if you plan to use it for car use.

 

euclid, if you are very determined to buy a Shoei, you can still get an SA-95 Shoei Full face. I actually owned one for about a week a while back (screw up in sizing and timing and so on ...). I found a link here (http://home.off-road.com/~pci/docs/helmets.html) but you might want to call Helmet City (www.helmetcity.com) about them and see if they still can get you one. I was like you, really only wanted a Shoei or Arai at the time. Doing a quick search, I found this Arai GP-5k (http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/helmet/gp5k.asp#) and if its the one I am thinking of, its got some disgusting low weight (like under 3 lbs.). These were quick searches, I'd try Shoei/Arai SA Helmets on google and see what you turn up and perhaps you can source an SA-2000.

FWIW, I have owned 2 Arai (M), 1 Shoei (M) (well 2 if you count the week (SA)), 3 Bells (SA) and at this point, I am very happy with the Bell M3. IMO, you are correct that at the lower price points, the Bell isn't the finest (my M2 has had its issues ) but I think the M3 and Vortex helmets are in a better class of helmet. Then again, the Vortex are no cheaper than the Arai.

Oh and a big by the way, the Shoei SA helmets run a half to full size larger than their M counterpart - at least that was my experience as I fitted in an M and bought the same model line SA (and could swim in it).

 

the only difference in testing is another impact test that tests for specific impact on a rollbar, that is only on top of the same three rigid impact tests of the same tolerance and specifications as M helmets. and yes, the only other difference is the fire retardant layer.

helmets are designed to take the force of the impact so that the skull doesnt. in order to do this at the level of impact that a crash helmet must pass, they are designed to self destruct, transferring the kinetic energy by destroying itself. but that means they are NOT mean for multiple uses. both M and SA helmets are designed with the same principle.

read my FAQ for all the details. http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/helmet.html#10

 

I suggest you read the recent SportsCar, July 2003, "Show Some Restraint" artical, starts on page 40, covers helmets on page 42 to 46. There are more that just fire resistant material differences between SA and M rated helmets.

 

got it right in front of me

"another difference is that a motorcycle helmet may not be tested for multiple impacts on a roll-bar type structure, but it does meet the other requirements of an auto racing helmet."

the key word everyone seems to be focusing on is "multiple impacts". if you read the specs, youll see the parameters of the test are the same 150J initial impact, followed by a 120j and 100J impact, (instead of on extra 110j impact). it DOES NOT MEAN its meant to be used again AFTER a single event of collision. and youll see these testing parameters are not significantly different than the "other requirements" that both motorcycle and auto helmets.

from the FAQ, since apparently you havent read it, or are knowledgeable of the actual SNELL certification procedure.
http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/helmet.html

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the difference in impact standards?
Like mentioned above, both SA and M standards must pass the same 3 anvil test. SA adds an extra rollbar anvil test. The test parameters for both SA00 and M00 standards are below:

a. There shall be two impacts at each site tested against the flat anvil. For the first impact, the impact energy shall be 150 J for all testing regardless of headform size or weight. For the second impact, the impact energy shall be 110 J for all testing regardless of headform size or weight. Given an ideal frictionless mechanical test facility, the impact energies represent 3.0+ meter and 2.2+ meter drops respectively of a 5 kg headform and supporting assembly.
b. There shall be two impacts at each site tested against the hemispherical anvil. For the first impact, the impact energy shall be 150 J for all testing regardless of headform size or weight. For the second impact, the impact energy shall be 110 J for all testing regardless of headform size or weight. Given an ideal frictionless mechanical test facility, the certification impact energies represent 3.0+ meter and 2.2+ meter drops respectively of a 5 kg headform and supporting assembly.
c. There shall be one impact at each site tested against the edge anvil. For each impact against the edge anvil, the impact energy shall be 150 J for all testing regardless of headform size or weight. Given an ideal frictionless mechanical test facility, this energy represents a 3.0+ meter drop of a 5 kg headform and supporting assembly.

SA standard adds this extra requirement for rollbar protection.

d. There shall be three impacts at each site tested against the roll bar anvil. Sites selected for roll bar anvil impacts must lie behind the fore plane and above the test line of the helmet. For the first impact and second impacts, the impact energy shall be 150 J and 120 J respectively for all testing regardless of headform size or weight. For the third impact, the impact energy shall be 100 J for all other testing regardless of headform size or weight. Given an ideal frictionless mechanical test facility, the certification impact energies represent 3.0+, 2.4+ and 2.0+ meter drops of a 5 kg headform and supporting assembly. </TD></TR></TABLE>


oh and the SAME article has printed in a BOLD caption " HELMETS ARE SACRIFICIAL DEVICES AND AN IMPACT, BY DESIGN, MAY CRACK THE SHELL OR DAMAGE THE PADDING."

 

Tyson is right on with everything posted here (except for the bling reference ) and the "no open-face" rule is as close to an ultimate truth as you can get in this business.

If anyone DOES find SA-00 Shoei helmets out there, please let me know. My current default setting is the Bell XFM1.

K

 

hey thanks for all the replies, i was very busy tonight so i wasnt able to check those links yet, but i will start looking asap.

good to know that the bell m3 is an option too