Dear HT members,

I`m finding myself in a big dilemma these days.
That`s the story..

In the year 2000 I bought my first ITR (#01858). It was bone stock and I had no clue what it means, no clue the ITR is a racecar with street permit.
I found SHO in the internet and later I became a HT member. I started to mod my car and made a lot of mistakes, blew one engine before I found out what`s best to a car such like the ITR: Leave the engine stock, good bolt ons, best suspension, stiffness, good rims and tires, brakes, security items.... And go RACING.

I`m living near the famous Ring and Hockenheim. I loved the way my ITR screamed through the curves of the Ring and I began to learn. Learn how to shift, learn how to heel/toe, learn how to brake and learn how to use the steering wheel.

And one day I felt comfortable with the ring, my ITR and myself and I crashed it into the wall of the ring. In the next few weeks my world was blackened.. I had trouble with my job, with my gf (we are living together in one house with our little one) because that car was gone. And with that car all that fun in my life went away..

I made up my mind and decided to buy another stock ITR (#5847). All that good parts from my old R now breathe in that new ITR, including a strong JDM b18c. It`s very fast and I like it a lot. It`s got Honda-factory stickers but in my eyes it`s beautiful. And THAT all is my dilemma now.

Everytime I go to track or dare to race a Auto-x, my thoughts concentrate on the car`s safety, not on driving-fun. please, please not another crash

Facts:
The car is RARE... only 1106 in Germany. Only ITR`s, no other Integra models. The parts are RARE and expensive as hell.... A racing season costs 10k if the car stays in good shape.

I don`t feel any fun nomore racing this ITR at the limit. But I don`t want to sell it for a track bitch and a towing vehicle.... And track bitch, towing car AND ITR is way too expensive for me...So I don`t know what to do now. I don`t want an ITR without racing it (that`s waste of fun) but I don`t want to sell it just to own a stupid track car and a grannie-mobile for street application.

Any thoughts ? Quit racing ?

 

you need to drive to your limits...if you're worried about crashing and that's all that you think about, you're never going to enjoy yourself anymore...

You either need to stop thinking about the crash and do what you've grown to like doing, or you need to sell the car and move on...only you can make that decision

 

Some things I learned about racing:

1) It's not "if" you'll crash, it's "when". Crashing is a part of racing. It will happen, no matter how safe you race. Other cars could hit you too.

2) If you can't afford to fix the car, don't race it.

3) If you are afraid to damage the car, see #2.

If you want to race the car competitively but are afraid, then you lost the edge and you should either quit or get back in the car and race to the limit again to regain the edge. The only way to have fun is to run it hard again.

What were the circumstances of the crash? Human error? Track condition bad? or?

It doesn't sound like you want to give up the car, so either get back on the horse and race hard again, or quit racing and save yourself a few bucks.

Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gee3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What were the circumstances of the crash? Human error? Track condition bad? or? </TD></TR></TABLE>

A fox got in my way and I decided to protect it`s life...so I found myself at the wrong side of the track when the next curve appeared.... The ring only offers 2m of grass before the wall gets you

 

just some things that I have learned

1) I do track days and drive my car around 8/10ths on the track and I'm still having a hell of a good time and I'm faster than a lot of the guys on the track. I like to keep a safety margin considering it's a daily driver and no roll cage or harnesses.

2) Next time hit whatever is softer. Last time I checked a fox is softer than a concrete wall. I could be wrong since it is a German fox but I doubt it. I once hit a raccoon which was about the size of a medium sized dog. I stayed in my lane and avoided all the cars that I would have swerved into by hitting that animal. I commend you for your respect of life but you put your own life at risk by choosing not to hit an animal.

3) Question: Do you know how to make a small fortune racing?
Answer: Start with a large fortune.
Racing is expensive. Be prepared to make the sacrifice. If you are not willing to do this then take up another hobby/sport.
I am currently taking a hiatus from racing because I can't afford to be rebuilding engines. I will eventually pick it back up but at this time in my life it is not financially feasible. It's just a part of life. Sounds like you need to evaluate your own life and what matters.

The only one who can make this decision is you. I hope that in some way I shared something with you that might help. Good luck on what ever you decide.

 

At a loss for words, but you write well about a tough situation.

 

Ya know, I probably would have done the same thing. Instinct tells you to swerve out of the way. Unfortunately, it didn't do you any good. Sorry man. But I think you should still go back on the track because in your heart, you know you love driving the car at speed on a track. I know I do!

Good luck on whatever decision you make.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At a loss for words, but you write well about a tough situation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Those are my thoughts... For a long time I kept them in my heart but they need to get shared...

So there is one thing guys tried me to tell:

If you are racing, better say goodbye to your car... because IT will happen someday.

For me, that means waiting, pay the ITR and get a second one... One for the heart and one for track.

Or:

Pay the ITR first, then make it race-only... Get an M3 for daily driving and track the ITR until it`s dead...

But what should I do in the meantime ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR5874 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

For me, that means waiting, pay the ITR and get a second one... One for the heart and one for track.

Or:

Pay the ITR first, then make it race-only... Get an M3 for daily driving and track the ITR until it`s dead...

But what should I do in the meantime ?


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lay low for a little while, gather your thoughts, save money so that you can do either of the above...its quite obvious you love going to the track...you'd be lying to yourself if you stopped

fyi...neomugen on this board went thru the same thing...but hes back on the horse
not at a full gallop but a slow trot...but hes trying and for that is give him a pat on the back

 

"you'd be lying to yourself if you stopped "

so true.

 

"Never race anything that you can't afford to push off a cliff."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooseHead R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Never race anything that you can't afford to push off a cliff."

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lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSTEALTH GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lol </TD></TR></TABLE>

While it's funny, it's dead right. If you're w2w racing, you should be able to live with doing just that.

 

you might consider another less expensive means of racing. Shifter karts are more affordable and they are fast as hell. They can be towed with a type r and you will retain your street car. If you wreck one they are a lot easier to fix. If I knew then what I know now I would have chosen Karting. Something to think about.
I'm out of the racing scene with my r but I visit the local 3/8 paved oval for fun. Racing is racing. I'm trying to get a seat in a car for a demolition derby. I can't let my helmet and driving suit go to waste. Put my front wheel drive experience to good use since one has to drive demo derby cars backwards. By the way, I'm not a big nascar fan by any means but I do like to go to the local roundy round to smell the hi-octane and burnt rubber and brakes. The crashes are cool too.
just thought I would share with you some things that get me through the night sweats.

 

Sven,
It is really damned hard to get in a car and feel the same way about driving after a crash.... I completely understand. It is bad enough to watch someone else's car be totalled and then have 'mental issues' on the track because you are worried about what 'may' happen if you have an off. It is really hard to focus 100% and tune out the nasty things that have happened in a car. Street accidents and track accidents.

All I can think about when driving in bad weather is when I spun, hitting that gigantic light pole on the highway. I get these flashes of "What if" in my head: what if I missed the pole and the car went spinning down the hill, away from the highway? What if I broadsided the pole? What if I hit it dead on? It drives me totally crazy. It is really hard to get out of my head. Most of the time it isn't there, but I think alot of you know that feeling if you have ever had a nasty crash that could have potentially been even worse.

I try to go straight off the course when things are getting hairy. I got yelled at at the expo by my instructor for going straight off at the end of the front straightaway..... I got my foot stuck between the gas and the brake pedals and what was the point of throwing the car into a turn 20mph+ too fast? I had a car in front of me, behind me, and who knows what kind of damage I could have done. I was rattled, it is ONLY a HPDE/lapping event, and I'm not here to win anything, just have fun and learn. So I drove off. My instructor was pissed, and kinda 'wrote me off' as a long cause after that. Whatever. I felt good that I didn't make a bad decision. Maybe I'm a wuss for driving off in some people's opinion, but if you aren't comfortable, it is time to step back and take a deep breath, right?

I know there is very little if any run off room at the Nurburing.... so what I just said may not apply to you. I would have done what you did with the fox, what else is there to do?

A few have said that you have to be prepared at any time to walk away with your car written off. It is really true. It is sad to think that.... but anything could happen at any time, you have to be prepared safety-wise, mentally and physically, and probably financially.

What is amusing and ironic is that in order to push your limits, learn, have fun and improve, you must clear your mind of anything other than what you are doing at that very moment, and what is directly ahead of you. Kinda hard to just 'forget' all the possible 'what ifs', but if you don't, track driving can be really no fun at all.

I hope you feel better about the car. I hope something I said made sense and/or helped. I haven't wrecked a car, but I came close, and I've seen a few wrecks: one only a few hundred feet away, and it is really hard to get back in my daily driver and feel like everything is going to be ok after seeing cars get destroyed. (at the track)

Be prepared for the worst, but don't think about it while on the track
Nice advice, huh?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooseHead R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Never race anything that you can't afford to push off a cliff." </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a auto-x car that will eventually be turned into a road racing car.
1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R. 140hp, limited slip, $1800.

You can make it fast and still keep it street legal. And you can afford to wreck it.

 

Look at my signature, I understand your psychology at the track with a second R. What you need is seatime and total confidence in controling your car.

seat-time seat-time seat-time seat-time seat-time seat-time seat-time seat-time, that's all you need. Drive 5~7/10 of your limit. Try to learn to drive the car to the limit as part of your body, you don't bump into the wall when you walk on the street right? Know your limits, concentration levels, tire tolerance, suspension behaviors and drive within reasonable limits from these factors. Attend driving schools, master understeering and oversteering, know when to give up and what to do when you absolutely have to go offcourse.

Chances are, in time, you R will get bang up again, it's the price you pay for participating in this sport...no matter what car you are driving. So, enjoy it and take the risk, cautiously.

Be a man and accept the reality, you liked the car and enjoy tracking it. Show your true colors or be regretful later.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sven,


I try to go straight off the course when things are getting hairy. I got yelled at at the expo by my instructor for going straight off at the end of the front straightaway..... I just have fun and learn. So I drove off. My instructor was pissed, and kinda 'wrote me off' as a long cause after that. Whatever. I felt good that I didn't make a bad decision.

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Thats kind of strange.

At a lapping day i went to at Sebring, the instructor told me that going straight off was the BEST thing to do in an unavoidable situation.

Your instructor sounds like he was an ***, IMO.

Going straight off= better control, straight braking, etc.... If you go into a turn and overcook it, who knows what direction youre going to be headed and where the car will make contact with something large and immovable.

Sorry for going off-topic, i just had to voice my opinion

 

remember, it's just a car


that's why I have fun and enjoy life

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tampaSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At a lapping day i went to at Sebring, the instructor told me that going straight off was the BEST thing to do in an unavoidable situation. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My instructor said the same. If you cant make the turn, open up the steering wheel, and both feet to the floor(brake and clutch).

I asked him why going out straight is better than sidewase, but I forgot his answer. I'm guessing going off straight will let the anti-lock brakes do their magic, and if you do hit something you have airbags and front crumple zones. Probably also reduces the odds of flipping quite a bit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I try to go straight off the course when things are getting hairy. I got yelled at at the expo by my instructor for going straight off at the end of the front straightaway..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

If the situation happened like you said, your instructor was quite simply, a ****. IMO, no instructor should ever yell at a student while the car is moving, for any reason. Not to mention the fact that you made the right decision.

 

Whats up Sven, I am sorry to hear about your situation. I remember reading that post about you crashing your car, and that really took ***** to go back out there and race it again. You sound like you love this sport and why should this stop you. I agree with Chris N 100%, I always find my mind wandering and start thinking about all the 'what ifs', but thats the way it is, and anything could happen.. If I were you I would keep racing and love it while you can, good luck and have a lot of fun

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR5874 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Any thoughts ? Quit racing ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dont drive beyond yourself, fxck what others are doing on the track and realise that its 'when' not 'if' and you will be fine. Racing is a gamble, if you dont want to risk your car and cant afford to replace it then you dont want to be there IMO.

 

forget that nonsense...

this is why I'm seriously looking into racing shifter karts.

you can still have a nice ITR to drive and not throw off a cliff, learn engine building, chassis setup, computerized tuning, driving technique, team racing managament skills at a fraction of the cost...If Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna started this way, it can't be a bad deal....

Plus they do use Honda engines here as well...those karts go like stink! 1/4 mile in the mid 11's and &gt; 1.5 g cornering.

You can heel & toe, slide into the apex away, fender to fender and it won't cost you an arm and a leg:

this is called having your cake and eating it too!





PS you can avoid foxes a lot easier too!

 

I had my first real off with damage this year and I'm going to find out next month if I can handle track conditions again.

**** happens. It's a part of the hobby/sport. I held off going to the track till I came to grips that something like this can and will happen in due time. Honestly, I'm going to have to agree with BlueR in saying that if you give up entirely, you'd be lying to yourself. You enjoy doing this and there is a reason why you went out there again.

I'll find out if I have a mental block against going "fast" out on the track soon enough. But if I'm not, I'm just going to keep on going till I overcome any fears that I have. It's easier said than done but I think my desire to get on the track and have fun outweighs any fear that may be dormant in me from this previous off.