I had heard that an instructor was lifeflighted out of T-Hill last week after an incident in an S2000 where the car flipped and the factory rollbars weren't adequate... anyone know what the outcome was? Is the instructor ok?

 

Haven't heard about this one, but if anyone finds out anything I'd like to hear it. Hope the guy is okay.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Haven't heard about this one, but if anyone finds out anything I'd like to hear it. Hope the guy is okay.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is a post from the S2Ki.com website and a pic, which show the factory roll hoops unaffected, but the windshield frame started to give.

Here is the link to the thread:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/sho...ber=1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S2ki.com poster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The instructor that got hurt was sent by helicopter to the trauma center in Davis for evaluation of apparent neck injuries. Early report was that he was conscious and had feeling in all extremities.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Dang. Hope for a full recovery...

 

I guess Honda hasn't fixed the problem of structural integrity withing the windshield frame yet......

We all remember the Del Sol's and their ability to collapse.

Rollbars look good which is okay

Cal - Who hopes for a speedy and full recovery of those involved.

 

Most likely the roll hoops were never even touched. This is the first S2000 roll-over I have seen w/ a collapsed A-pillar. Considering the speed the driver was most likely traveling at the time of the roll I'm not surprised.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess Honda hasn't fixed the problem of structural integrity withing the windshield frame yet......</TD></TR></TABLE>

The S2000 is capable of supporting its own weight on the windshield frame without collapsing. When the S2000 is resting upside-down, the two contact points are the windshield frame and the the rear of the trunk. Of course, since everyone's head sticks over those hoops (the metal bars are about 1.5" lower than the tops of the plastic fairings, there's a good chance the car could be resting on your head instead of the trunk lid.

As opposed to the S2K, the Del Sol's A-pillars like very much like the Civic coupe's (go figure).

 

not sure what the hell there is to fix in terms of structural integrity. the a pillar is weak, even on sedans, especially when you got 3000lbs resting on it, and it crumpling is not whats going to mainly hurt you in a rollover, case in point.

anyway, turn 3 is a really off camber turn. judging by the picture and the few words that were said, i can totally see it happening. and yeah, probably just teetered over, not a full on barrel roll. LOTS of beginners spin out in turn 3, but usually off drivers left down the hill into the turn, never drivers right into the dirt wall.

its unfortunate that an instructor got hurt. i was behind a 3000gt in a civic as an instructor last year that felt like barreling down the front straight away trying to pull away from a little civic and not braking for the temporary chicane meant to slow you down was all part of the challenge. so he ended up braking really hard, and swung the car around and fishtailed and went straight off drivers right and hit the k wall dead on. instructor also got hurt, was sent by amulance with a damaged arm, but didnt seem critical or anything. but i kinda blame the instructor for that, because he should have told the student to slow down way ahead of time. my student was also chasing the 3000gt down full throttle until i told (yelled) him to slow down, and right after i said it, we saw it all happen in front of us. he thanked me later for saying something...

 

I was an instructor at a school and rode along with a student who was driving an S2000. The student was a squirrel who tried to impress me with the horsepower figures of his other street cars and was sure he knew how to get around a racetrack. Not. He scared the hell out of me and I was very eager to get out of the car as I did not feel safe at all without a cage around us. All I could think about was the terrible things that might happen if the car was to roll.

 

With all of the recent instructor bashing that has gone on around here, where is the outrage that this guy was not reigned in? I would sure imagine that Bob P. can be trusted to know a squirrel when he sees one so why didn't event managers shut down the behavior before it got to this point?

K

 

I have been in that situation with an S2000 as well - not rolled but sliding sideways at an alarming rate - the student kept wanting to 'be in the powerband' when he should've been concentrating on being on the line!

 

My student was more eager to catch his friends in the S2000 cars in front of him than really paying attention to where he was going. I think I could have beat him over the head with an apex and he would still have missed it. I was able to talk him into pitting a little early and I had a talk with another instructor who had spent a good part of the day with the guy. That instructor was surprised because he thought the guy was doing a pretty good job on the track. Other instructor may not have been used to competition driving and simply saw things differently.

This was not an SCCA school obviously and I think more of the emphasis was on making sure the students enjoyed themselves at this hi-perf driving school. I have heard of similar problems with students at other schools/club events and it is indeed fortunate that there haven't been more incidents like the one experienced at Thunderhill.

At a couple of schools I went to before getting into SCCA, it was made very clear that the instructors were in charge and if you didn't listen your day was done. This is made clear at every school I have participated in, but sometimes I don't think it gets enforced strongly enough.

With the problem students it is usually the same old story where they have been flogging their car on the street and beating their buddies or grandma in a Taurus so they "know" how to drive fast. The dynamics of driving at speed on a proper road course are much different and it can take some time to understand this. Thankfully I have also been an instructor for students who listen and get up to speed as their skills allow which is a good experience. It is a thrill to see how happy they are and their sense of accomplishment when they "get it".

 

I won't instruct in a convertible without what I consider to be a "real" roll-bar. Bet this guy wishes he had been of that opinion too. Not knocking him personally, but gang, think about the kind of car you are willing to get into, and how safe it is (i.e. rollbar NOT above the occupants heads)... Anything can happen out there.

 

The S2000 experience was my first in a convertible and R2X you make a very good point. Not too sure I will be doing it again.

 

My instructing days came to an end a couple of weeks ago at Pacific Raceways. The anxiety level has finally outmatched the enjoyment meter. Final nerve to break was riding with a student in his turbo Toyota Supra "detuned" to a measly little 510hp.

After the school was over, I jumped in a buddys ITA CRX and took a few people out for laps. I think that I will sticking to instruction by demonstration from the drivers point of view here on out.

For all of us who have had an instructor willing to jump in our car with us, we should be thankful because they are the ones who started us thinking like proper drivers.

 

Word is the instructor was airlifted to Chico hospital for eval. Everything checked out and he was released . Thought you guys would want to know.

 

That's good to hear.

 

Not to push the well fair of the driver aside but that's a pretty clean roll.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyway, turn 3 is a really off camber turn. judging by the picture and the few words that were said, i can totally see it happening. and yeah, probably just teetered over, not a full on barrel roll. LOTS of beginners spin out in turn 3, but usually off drivers left down the hill into the turn, never drivers right into the dirt wall.</TD></TR></TABLE>
FWD cars go off drivers left. RWD cars with newbie drivers go off drivers right. Several cars have rolled there. Rumor is that they are going to grade that area to the right to try to prevent more rollovers there. Hope it works.

 

I'm actually starting to worry about not having a window net. Should a car roll I'm not sure I trust myself to keep a deathgrip on the armrest...and I'd sure rather have two usable arms than one.

If I didn't enjoy it so much there's no way I'd instruct. Riding around a racetrack at breakneck speed with a driver who has no clue what he's doing...wow, when I type it out, it does sound pretty dumb.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Riding around a racetrack at breakneck speed with a driver who has no clue what he's doing...wow, when I type it out, it does sound pretty dumb.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah - you got in a car with me. My first time at VIR. In the rain.

What the hell were YOU thinking?

 

Hey, after turning in for T4 a little too early at Road Atlanta driving a rented ITB 200SX (full rollcage), I took one of my instructors straight through the esses in the grass and lifted only a little bit. If I hadn't seen Grayson Upchurch do it a couple of weeks earlier in his ITS 300ZX I would not have thought to do it to save the car (and our butts). Once we got through T5 we just kind of looked over at each other and continued at speed. Woo hoo! Been there, done scary things with an instructor in the car.

I've been in both seats and kinda like the one with the wheel and pedals better.


Modified by itsprelude at 3:21 AM 7/29/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm actually starting to worry about not having a window net. Should a car roll I'm not sure I trust myself to keep a deathgrip on the armrest...and I'd sure rather have two usable arms than one.

If I didn't enjoy it so much there's no way I'd instruct. Riding around a racetrack at breakneck speed with a driver who has no clue what he's doing...wow, when I type it out, it does sound pretty dumb.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL!!! I can't remember how many times I have held that same deathgrip!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Balled S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The S2000 is capable of supporting its own weight on the windshield frame without collapsing. When the S2000 is resting upside-down, the two contact points are the windshield frame and the the rear of the trunk. Of course, since everyone's head sticks over those hoops (the metal bars are about 1.5" lower than the tops of the plastic fairings, there's a good chance the car could be resting on your head instead of the trunk lid.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This would all be fine and dandy, if all roll overs were perfect lateral rolls. This isn't the case as many roll overs turn violent and get the off kilter mythodical wobbling effect which causes the car to impact at sometimes strange locations.

I agree with what you say, just stating that a roll over may not be perfect and may not be able to distribute the weight of the vehicle over the "full" windshield frame.

 

and lets not forget about the extra weight brought forth by the velocity of the impact. Curbweight plus 60mph anyone??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by r2x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I won't instruct in a convertible without what I consider to be a "real" roll-bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Many groups won't let a convertible without a real roll bar out on the track. Some groups (e.g. BMW CCA, at least in the Midwest) won't let any convertibles out on the track.