Curiosity stemming from bb6h22a and his thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=563861
I'm wondering what the SCCA soloII rules says or interprets about rollbars in STS. The rule book does say that all the modifications in stock class are allowed in STS with various exceptions.i.e. tires. As I was reading the rules for STS I came across no exception for rollbars in STS.
Of course there is really no reason to have a rollbar in STS but I do Solo trails and would like to give open road racing a try someday, and of course I'm an aspiring road racer.

 

rollbars are allowed in any class. its one of those safety rules. I forgot what the rule number is though.

 

roll bars are not allowed in all classes, they are allowed in some, but not all. Unfortunately, a roll bar would be considered a chassis stiffening device, which is not allowed in ANY stock class, STS and STX allow front and rear strut bars bolted to the shock mounting points. technically, if you have a c-pillar bar which you might be using as a camera mount, someone could protest that as an illegal chassis stiffeneing device and get you kicked from sts/stx into street mod or SP.
here are the full rules: http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.html

 

Dood you're wrong... they are allowed in all classes.

 

[QUOTE=SlapSmak]roll bars are not allowed in all classes, they are allowed in some, but not all. Unfortunately, a roll bar would be considered a chassis stiffening device, which is not allowed in ANY stock class, STS and STX allow front and rear strut bars bolted to the shock mounting points. technically, if you have a c-pillar bar which you might be using as a camera mount, someone could protest that as an illegal chassis stiffeneing device and get you kicked from sts/stx into street mod or SP.
here are the full rules:
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.html[/QUOTE]

I believe you are wrong. Roll bars are allowed in stock class as long as it is bolted and not welded.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they are allowed in all classes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Actually you ARE allowed to weld them in, as long as they attach at no more than 4 points and it is deemed a safety item and NOT as a chassis stiffening device..

Jeff

Ask me how I know...AND the subsequential weight penalty..

 

can anyone show me this? I looked through the rules again and dont see that...?

ok, found it...:
13.2 Bodywork
G. Roll bars and roll cages may be added (see Appendix C). It is strongly recommended that they be constructed according to Section 18 of the current GCR. Roll bars may be welded. Roll cages must be bolted, not welded, into the automobile and within the driver/passenger compartment. A roll cage has more than four attachment points to the body or frame, or has bracing both fore and aft of the main hoop.

 

Well I'm glad this has corrected someone people( not trying sound like an ***) I too did look at appendix C and read the same thing just want some varification. Thanks. I believe for Prelude is going to be revampt next year. I'll probably make it to some Prosolos and definately the Nationals. Not braging but I am performing quite impressively in the RM division. And its my first year.

 

I'm not sure the rollbar is worth its weight pentaly for its stiffness benefit. But if you do track days then absolutely put one in.

 

I may have to disagree with you there, RJ. I suppose it all matters on the weight of the vehicle and the % increase it is. I'm *positive* the roll bar on my (now retired) Eclipse greatly helped stiffen the rear structure, which was approximately as stiff as a boiled spaghetti noodle, and was faster as a result. One of my competitors remarked that he had never seen an Eclipse lift the inside rear wheel in transitions...

Obviously, this matter is very debatable.....

Matt&lt;--6pt autopower bolt-in cage equipped, STS legal...

 

On both my SE-R's the addition of an Autopower bolt-in bar was remarkably noticeable re: chassis stiffness and the creation of "rotation" (i.e. gentle oversteer) as a result. Way more beneficial handling-wise than any weight penalty it might've added IMHO. On that particular car, I would consider a rollbar a nice way to "bend the rules" ... ymmv of course

Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not sure the rollbar is worth its weight pentaly for its stiffness benefit. But if you do track days then absolutely put one in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As others have noted, it depends on the make/model. It makes a significant difference on the early RX-7 (mostly because they are all rusty pieces of **** at this point). If they didn't make a difference, why would welded cages be banned?

T-Tops and convertibles in particular can benefit from a rollbar or cage.

 

I beat Heyward Wagner in '99 for the E-stock state championship with that roll-bar equipped Eclipse. The next year, Heyward had a nice custom welded bar installed in his Civic. I haven't seen him drive in a while, but if he's still got that same Civic, he sure seems to be doing *quite* well in STS with it, roll bar and all.

In a car like a Type R, where the factory has really beefed up the structure, I doubt a bar will help much in the rigidity area. But on older cars it seems to be worth the weight penalty. YMMV.

 

So what is the average weight of say a 4 point rollbar?

 

No! No rollbars,, you cant be safe here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what is the average weight of say a 4 point rollbar?</TD></TR></TABLE>

about 50lbs

 

actually heyward is still driving the same civic, but he has removed the roll bar to save weight. can't argue with his success, both with and without the bar. he beat me by .057 at the MI pro-solo. i think it was his cheater tires though.

nate

 

Alright so another issue I've come to think about when putting in rollbars is the possible modification/removal of panels. I consulted the rule book, and there nothing specific to removing/modifying panels but under the stock category a rule does state.

13.2 Body Work: Accessories, gauges, indicators, light, and other appearance comfort and convience modifications which have no effect on performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted.

So......

 

you can trim the panel(s) to fit the rollbar...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can trim the panel(s) to fit the rollbar... </TD></TR></TABLE>

One would assume so, but the rules don't say that you can. You are definately not allowed to trim anything to fit allowed modifications, including those rear strut tower bar that many people have, and not allowed to cut seats for harness installation (Section 13.2.H).

The only way you can cut panels to fit a roll bar is if those panels are for comfort or convenience (Section 13.2.A).

 

pull out the rulebook again. you can trim interior bits to facilitate the installation of a rollbar, bolt in rollcage, or harness bar. the trimming cannot be for any other purpose.

nate

 

Don't you just love the rule book? Look at how many different assumptions/interpretations we have already...

 

To expand on what RJ and solo-x said..... the rule book does say that a rollbar is always recommended. So why would they make rules for any class that would prevent them from being installed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RAB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To expand on what RJ and solo-x said..... the rule book does say that a rollbar is always recommended. So why would they make rules for any class that would prevent them from being installed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't think that there's always logic in the ruleset! Why would they say you can install rear shock tower bars when virtually no eligible STS vehicles have exposed shock towers, making those bars illegal if you cut the plastic. By the way, the rule book also doesn't recommend the use of roll bars/cages, at least not in stock/STS.

I just read through all the stuff on Moutons, and no where does it say that body panels may be cut. The missing piece is Appendix F, which evidently provides some clarifications. Can anyone quote a section of the rule book that says modifications are allowed to fit the roll bar/cage?