would i need RC 440 or 550 saturated injectors for JRSCed GSR with a 35 shot of dry NOS? i would think bigger is better in this situation. and another question...do i have to have a dry shot when running Hondata? if so, why don't they make fuel maps and stuff for a wet shot? thanx

OT: since i'm gonna be getting a GSR swapped into my 98 ex, i am gonna have to order a cat-back for the GSR and not the civic right?


Modified by 98civicguy at 1:46 PM 7/11/2003

 

i think the 440's would be sufficient but id get the 550 just in case in the future you need room for upgrades.

 

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How far do you think you will take this setup? Are you going to eventually want to run more boost and spray more? I've maxed out my 440's and am wishing I woulda bought 550's. 440's will probably be sufficient enough to support a 35 shot dry but think of what you might want to be building in the future.
The nitrous solenoid is fired by a single wire coming from the ECU.
Hondata basically switches its maps at a certain speed/rpm/load activated window that you can setup w/ romeditor. Add fuel, pull timing, etc, cool software patch that is basically free.
It would be possible to use a direct port nitrous setup and have Hondata pull the timing for you.

 

your the guy i need to talk to. b/c your JRSCed and spraying nitrous, right? what shot do you have now? and what brand? and where are you running to your nitrous at? b/c some do it through the throttle body and some through intake manifold...i'm just curious where would be the best place. thanx

 

I have several different chips that correspond w/ different jets sizes. I love dyno tuning and have chips burnt for my setup tuned from anywhere between a 20-90 shot. I spray dry through the charger in front of the throttle body. IMO I dont like the idea of spraying wet through the charger. Some say that spraying fuel through can be bad for the seals on the rotors. I've also heard that there is a chance of vapor lock in the charger. I would like to hear others opnions on this subject.
I run N.O.S setup w/ solenoid (#16020).

 

Fuel does not harm the charger. Carbuerated engines run the same blowers and put fuel throw them 100% of the time, and theyre fine. I may run a small 15 shot in the near future also, I plan on running a wet kit so I dont have to upgrade any more fuel. Let me know how your kit turns out.
gmoore

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fuel does not harm the charger. Carbuerated engines run the same blowers and put fuel throw them 100% of the time, and theyre fine. I may run a small 15 shot in the near future also, I plan on running a wet kit so I dont have to upgrade any more fuel. Let me know how your kit turns out.
gmoore</TD></TR></TABLE>
These are some good points which I have also taken into consideration in the past when researching this subject. Here is something else to think about. Fuel delivery and atomization is totaly different on carbureted engines compared to a multi-port fuel injection engine. Fuel vaporization is also different in terms of the amount of fuel a carburetor will dump through a charger together w/ nitrous compared to the amount of fuel running through the charger with a wet system on a multi-port fuel delivery setup.

 

But the wet system will put far less fuel through the blower than a carbuerator would. Also, with the blades spinning in there atomization shouldnt be a problem at all.
gmoore

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But the wet system will put far less fuel through the blower than a carbuerator would. Also, with the blades spinning in there atomization shouldnt be a problem at all.
gmoore</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has been proven in the domestic market that with nitrous the fuel mixture/atomization rate and the amount of vapors running through a blower with a carb is reliable. We are talking about massive amounts of fuel being dumped along with nitrous. What if you don't have as much fuel going through with the nitrous because you run a multi port fuel injection setup? I have thought about this many times...... Have yet to talk to anyone that runs a wet system through the charger w/ multi port injection that is experienced and has been running that setup for an extended period of time.

 

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm ck it out

 

i've also heard that if you run it through the charger that it eats up the 'teflon coating'. but i've also heard that it doesn't harm the blower in any way... i guess some people made stuff up or got a bad blower or something. i guess the only way you'll know is if you figure it out yourself. but for me, i think i'm just gonna go with: RC saturated 550s, Walbro 255 fuel pump, hondata s100 w/boost and nitrous controls, and a 35 shot of dry NOS through the throttle body. thanx for everyones coments/suggestions.

 

Your building this very nicely, but your going to spray too much, if your on stock internals that is. Most of the people on hostboard are only spraying a 15-20 shot. Once you get it done and dynoed you will see that with a 35 shot you will see close to 50-60 whp. Your rods should take it, but your rings , I dunno. Your raising cylinder pressures substantially with that shot. More power to you if you wanna go for it, but I just wanted to warn you, my .02 cents.
gmoore

 

yah good point. i think i might reconsider a 35. what should i get to strengthen my motor internal wise for a 35 shot? thanx

 

I ran a 40 shot on my stock bottom w/ 8psi for over a year w/ no problem, at the track widit every other weekend.
Here's my current setup:
D16z6
JRSC @10psi
RC 440's
9:1 Arias Pistons
Crower Rods
STR Blockguard
RPS Clutch
Clutchmaster Flywheel
255lph intank pump
Hondata s200b
Hondata Nitrous Controls

I have my car tuned at Payn Technologies on his Mustang Dyno. Last time we tuned I sprayed a .052 jet (approx 90 shot) I got 251whp and 227tq.
I woulda sprayed more but ran out of injector I know people on this board that spray 100 shots dry through their JRSC and go mid 12's in the quarter. Hondata Nitrous controls are awesome, exremely reliable.
Thats my .50 and I'm out.
Craig

 

just for total security on messing something up...what kind of internals should i consider buying? piston rings...maybe some eagle rods....what else just for added support?

 

I dont know that Id worry too much about rods. I dont think youll push enough hp to harm yours. Plus your going to pay a pretty penny to have them installed, not nearly as much as you would to have pistons installed. For now, I would just do rings and pistons, and a thicker headgasket while your in there, to lower compression, then you could up the shot considerably.
gmoore

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont know that Id worry too much about rods. I dont think youll push enough hp to harm yours. Plus your going to pay a pretty penny to have them installed, not nearly as much as you would to have pistons installed. For now, I would just do rings and pistons, and a thicker headgasket while your in there, to lower compression, then you could up the shot considerably.
gmoore</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok first off if you are going to pull the stock rods and pistons to install aftermarket forged pistons then select your compression accordingly. Dont run aftermarket pistons and a thicker headgasket cause that is pointless. And while your rod piston combo is out its better to do aftermarket rods now instead of later. If you are going to have a shop do the install im sure it would cost next to nothin to have the rods installed as well. If you think about it, Pressing the wrist pins onto stock rods alone would probably cost as much as getting the rods installed. Hell you could even assemple the pistons onto aftermarket rods yourself its easy

do it right the first time. pistons, rods, headstuds, oem headgasket. done
if you decide to stick with stock rods good luck and remember you will also be paying to have the new pistons to be pressed on.

 

Ok, why would it cost a pretty penny to have rods installed if you are already doing pistons??? The rods would already be out of the block and need to be reinstalled if your doing pistons. I'd personally be more more worried about the rods anyways. Have you ever seen a stock Honda rod, they look like toothpicks. Might as well do both when you have it apart.

I also agree with GITWIDIT. I would definately go with a dry setup, especially spraying through a charger. Why take a chance that the fuel can damage it? Dry will work just as well for most likely more hp than you will be willing to give it. There also aren't many fuel upgrades needed, fuel pump and injectors. Fuel pump already being a good idea with the supercharger. I prefer dry single point injection over wet single point injection anyday, even without a charger. With a wet nitrous setup the only way to go is with a direct port kit, IMO. Think about what could happen if you have a nitrous backfire which wet single point injection kits are known to do. Say bye-bye to the $2000 supercharger.

EDIT: g2turbo already beat me to the rods thing. Absolutely though, do it right the first time. I assembled my shortblock myself. It's actually easier to use aftermarket rods because the wrist pins don't need to be pressed in. Not to mention stock Honda D Series rods become marginal at 200whp and I've heard the B Series ones aren't too much better.


Modified by RyanCivic2000 at 4:06 PM 7/13/2003

 

I would run a dry shot as well before the TB. Im not 100% sold on either side, whether it may be harmful or not, but a dry shot just seems simpler.

In terms of building the motor, I say skip it. If the motor is in good condition, it just seems like overkill for what youre trying to accomplish. For a JRSC + small shot, you should be fine with a healthy stock motor. The headgasket is wrong, first off...you want to keep your high compression with the charger. I would stick to stock until the block becomes a limitation, which it isnt for your purposes now.

 

Well, if you did the headgasket, you could up boost alittle. Which would be nice. I thought you only had to pull the head to replace pistons? IDK, Im probably wrong. Also, many people on hostboard prefer the wet setups when they dont have Hondata, and its nitrous controls. Thats why I reccomended it, I dont have Hondata, and Im going to have to go wet, because theres no way for me to up fuel pressure while only on the bottle. Good thread.
gmoore

 

i plan on getting the motor from either HMO or IAS w/LSD. when someone said "healthy motor", are you talking about mileage? so would under 60K be considered as "healthy".

ok, so i should skip the internal work of the block for now. i'm gonna be going for 8-11 psi w/a 35 shot of dry NOS through the throttle body. after a while (say 3K - 4K miles) i should look into...1st: pistons (10:1 cp like stock) 2nd: rods 3rd: OEM headgasket. anything else? anyone have a particular brand they prefer at a reasonable price? thanx a bunch.

 

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Healthy motor meaning compression checks out and leakdown is acceptable.

The main goal I would assume with this setup is to retain your stock block as long as possible. I imagine 8PSI + 35 shot could be achieved safely, again depending on condition, as long as you have a competent way to control the nitrous as well as invest in solid tuning...ie Hondata With these setups, we cant stress enough, its ALL in the tuning. There isnt much slack due to the heat created from the charger and the rinky dink FMU/relay setup JR includes in their kits.

I dont know if you can put a timetable on how long it lasts...if it does give, and you do need to invest in pistons/rods, I would keep 10:1 in order to maximize the potential from each PSI since we are boost limited due to the limitations of the charger. In terms of brands and rod choice, Im not sure, personally...havent had to deal with it luckily