Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Richmond Hill,Toronto, Canada
Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R
Hope you folks out there can help a newbie out. Planning to put that supercharger blower into a 98 gs-r is that ok even though the b18c1 has a higher compression ratio (vtec)? Heard it was not ideal since supercharger or boosting needs lower compressions? Also heard from friends that though Jackson racing says their blowers are "bolt on" they say its not totally true. friends say better reinforce the engine parts but i'm fuzzy on what to reinforce: piston rings, valves, and wha? maybe reinforcing is not needed, but i do plan 2 drive daily. Comments? Suggestions? Thanx y'all!
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 0
From: Do I look like Michael Bolton from Office Space,, MD, USA
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (Slow+Furious)
I would post this in the forced induction forum. They may give you some more insight...
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,416
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, GA, USA
Tell your friends they dont know what the hell they are talking about.
The JRSC kit is a bolt on kit. Unless you plan on boosting into 16psi with that thing (I think using a B20 crank pulley), you ownt need upgraded internals.
The stock 8 psi even the 12psi on the GSR is just fine for daily driving. You might need to upgrade your injectors and get the Jackson boost controller, but that's about it.
As far as high compression on with boost, it only becomes the limiting factor to how much boost you want to run. Dropping the compression will allow you to run more boost, but with more boost comes more engine problems. Hence the suggestion to upgrade your internals.
So if you just stick to the Stock boost levels, it should be fine. You will be happy with the JRSC kit.
The JRSC kit is a bolt on kit. Unless you plan on boosting into 16psi with that thing (I think using a B20 crank pulley), you ownt need upgraded internals.
The stock 8 psi even the 12psi on the GSR is just fine for daily driving. You might need to upgrade your injectors and get the Jackson boost controller, but that's about it.
As far as high compression on with boost, it only becomes the limiting factor to how much boost you want to run. Dropping the compression will allow you to run more boost, but with more boost comes more engine problems. Hence the suggestion to upgrade your internals.
So if you just stick to the Stock boost levels, it should be fine. You will be happy with the JRSC kit.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 1
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (Slow+Furious)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=537254
That should help you a bit. We really should start a JRSC newbie FAQ...this has come up a lot recently.
To answer a few questions....high compression + JRSCs = power. Since the blowers are boost limited, you need to squeeze every bit of power per PSI you can out of them. The higher the compression, the less slack you have in terms of poor tuning and inadequate fuel, detonation, etc, but the more power you make per PSI. High compression is ideal for the charger at any boost level.
JRSCs start losing efficiency around 11-12PSI, where the air created is so hot due to the blowers physical limitations, that any gains are negated by heat. Running over that level also puts significant stress on the charger. The way to make more boost on a JRSC is to swap pulleys...there are 3 in question. The blower pulley, the alternator or "stepper" pulley and the crank pulley. Each pulley can be swapped for various levels of boost, or combined for more. 8-9PSI is a common single pulley upgrade that can be safely run on stock internals and create great power.
Tuning is EVERYTHING with these kits. The life of the motor, the potential of the kit and the power you make is directly dependent upon how well the setup is tuned. Its pretty primitive from JR....a basic JR kit compared to one with Hondata is a whole different car (which I go on about in that link above).
To clear up some misconceptions posted:
16PSI would be a combination of pulleys that would result in the charger operating WAY past its efficiency. In other words, completely not happening.
More boost does not equate "more engine problems." Im not sure where you came up with that, but again, if things are done right, you wont have any problems aside from stupid small things associated with making 2x the power your motor came with from the factory. Internals arent the beall endall fix for problems associated with boost...people have shown time and time again, and especially for JRSC setups, stock motors are completely competent. Time and time again people say "uh oh you want to turbo your car better get internals." Complete waste of money and time for most peoples aspirations. Dropping your compression doesnt allow you to run more boost...ensuring you have an adequate fuel system, a healthy motor, a good way to control timing/fuel and a solid tune is what allows you to up the ante.
If you upgrade your injectors to run more boost, which is necessary, you will need a way to control them. AFC, Hondata, AEM EMS, Emanage, etc...its not as simple as plugging in and going. Especially if you dont decide to go standalone and stick with an FMU....you will need to upgrade to an adjustable higher rate FMU like the Cartech.
There is no Jackson Boost Controller. It is a boost TIMING controller that retards timing per lb of boost. This is sometimes necessary, sometimes not. Some people get great results with it combined with a Map controller, others dont. Bottom line, they (AFC, Map Mod, BTC, Cartech FMU) are just halfass ways of doing things. If you want to do it right, go Hondata, ditch all that worthless JR **** and enjoy your daily driven 6-10PSI, instant boost, fairly reliable fun car.
That should help you a bit. We really should start a JRSC newbie FAQ...this has come up a lot recently.
To answer a few questions....high compression + JRSCs = power. Since the blowers are boost limited, you need to squeeze every bit of power per PSI you can out of them. The higher the compression, the less slack you have in terms of poor tuning and inadequate fuel, detonation, etc, but the more power you make per PSI. High compression is ideal for the charger at any boost level.
JRSCs start losing efficiency around 11-12PSI, where the air created is so hot due to the blowers physical limitations, that any gains are negated by heat. Running over that level also puts significant stress on the charger. The way to make more boost on a JRSC is to swap pulleys...there are 3 in question. The blower pulley, the alternator or "stepper" pulley and the crank pulley. Each pulley can be swapped for various levels of boost, or combined for more. 8-9PSI is a common single pulley upgrade that can be safely run on stock internals and create great power.
Tuning is EVERYTHING with these kits. The life of the motor, the potential of the kit and the power you make is directly dependent upon how well the setup is tuned. Its pretty primitive from JR....a basic JR kit compared to one with Hondata is a whole different car (which I go on about in that link above).
To clear up some misconceptions posted:
16PSI would be a combination of pulleys that would result in the charger operating WAY past its efficiency. In other words, completely not happening.
More boost does not equate "more engine problems." Im not sure where you came up with that, but again, if things are done right, you wont have any problems aside from stupid small things associated with making 2x the power your motor came with from the factory. Internals arent the beall endall fix for problems associated with boost...people have shown time and time again, and especially for JRSC setups, stock motors are completely competent. Time and time again people say "uh oh you want to turbo your car better get internals." Complete waste of money and time for most peoples aspirations. Dropping your compression doesnt allow you to run more boost...ensuring you have an adequate fuel system, a healthy motor, a good way to control timing/fuel and a solid tune is what allows you to up the ante.
If you upgrade your injectors to run more boost, which is necessary, you will need a way to control them. AFC, Hondata, AEM EMS, Emanage, etc...its not as simple as plugging in and going. Especially if you dont decide to go standalone and stick with an FMU....you will need to upgrade to an adjustable higher rate FMU like the Cartech.
There is no Jackson Boost Controller. It is a boost TIMING controller that retards timing per lb of boost. This is sometimes necessary, sometimes not. Some people get great results with it combined with a Map controller, others dont. Bottom line, they (AFC, Map Mod, BTC, Cartech FMU) are just halfass ways of doing things. If you want to do it right, go Hondata, ditch all that worthless JR **** and enjoy your daily driven 6-10PSI, instant boost, fairly reliable fun car.
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,784
Likes: 0
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bottom line, they (AFC, Map Mod, BTC, Cartech FMU) are just halfass ways of doing things. If you want to do it right, go Hondata, ditch all that worthless JR **** and enjoy your daily driven 6-10PSI, instant boost, fairly reliable fun car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Worthless and halfass are by no means the correct way to describe these products. Do they make as much power or a finer A/F ratio as hondata? No, but do they get the job done, yes. These products may not work as well as hondata, but they are by no means "shitty", so dont call them that. Does a Honda get you to point B as a Benz would? Yes, does it do it as well? No, but is it shitty because of that, definatly not.
gmoore
Worthless and halfass are by no means the correct way to describe these products. Do they make as much power or a finer A/F ratio as hondata? No, but do they get the job done, yes. These products may not work as well as hondata, but they are by no means "shitty", so dont call them that. Does a Honda get you to point B as a Benz would? Yes, does it do it as well? No, but is it shitty because of that, definatly not.
gmoore
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Literally everywhere.
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (tegunderpressure)
Newgsrdriver, good post and I look forward to the noobs being pointed toward it.
As a point of order, I have not seen a 9PSI JRSC on stock internals B18B make more power than my setup using Hondata, Haltech, AEM, etc.
I use all the bandaids listed above - I haven't seen anything standalone that can help me make more power than I do already <U>on my setup.</U> In fact, if there is a magic product out there, I'd be willing to try it.
However - my car is NOT a GSR, which seems to have a different set of parameters to make them run correctly. For the LS guys, remember this; you CAN get away with running the "bandaids" over a Hondata, etc.
Is the Hondata more eloquent? Yes. Is it more cost effective? Equal.
As newgsrdriver said "Tuning."
As a point of order, I have not seen a 9PSI JRSC on stock internals B18B make more power than my setup using Hondata, Haltech, AEM, etc.
I use all the bandaids listed above - I haven't seen anything standalone that can help me make more power than I do already <U>on my setup.</U> In fact, if there is a magic product out there, I'd be willing to try it.
However - my car is NOT a GSR, which seems to have a different set of parameters to make them run correctly. For the LS guys, remember this; you CAN get away with running the "bandaids" over a Hondata, etc.
Is the Hondata more eloquent? Yes. Is it more cost effective? Equal.
As newgsrdriver said "Tuning."
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 1
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (96IntegraRS)
Look at it this way:
Hondata S200B: $450
DSM 450s: $50
Tuning, figure 3hrs dyno/PT = $500
GT = $1000
BTC - $400
Map Mod - $150
AFC - $300
Tuning 3hrs = $400
GT = $1250
Never mind how much INFINITELY better a standalone is compared to these bandaids. No one can ever, ever make a case as to why they are better. Hondata allows the stock ECU to read boost...the car runs like it was boosted from the factory. No piggyback will ever accomplish that.
Dont get me wrong, a million piggybacks can be competent, sure, but the most efficient, either cost wise or performance wise? No. Another misconception...standalones are expensive. Whats expensive is mechanics bills and parts when things are done halfass.
Hondata S200B: $450
DSM 450s: $50
Tuning, figure 3hrs dyno/PT = $500
GT = $1000
BTC - $400
Map Mod - $150
AFC - $300
Tuning 3hrs = $400
GT = $1250
Never mind how much INFINITELY better a standalone is compared to these bandaids. No one can ever, ever make a case as to why they are better. Hondata allows the stock ECU to read boost...the car runs like it was boosted from the factory. No piggyback will ever accomplish that.
Dont get me wrong, a million piggybacks can be competent, sure, but the most efficient, either cost wise or performance wise? No. Another misconception...standalones are expensive. Whats expensive is mechanics bills and parts when things are done halfass.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 1
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (tegunderpressure)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Worthless and halfass are by no means the correct way to describe these products. Do they make as much power or a finer A/F ratio as hondata? No, but do they get the job done, yes. These products may not work as well as hondata, but they are by no means "shitty", so dont call them that. Does a Honda get you to point B as a Benz would? Yes, does it do it as well? No, but is it shitty because of that, definatly not.
gmoore</TD></TR></TABLE>
The analogy isnt really relevant.
What is being discussed here is the fine line you are walking with tuning your car most EFFICIENTLY, especially at high boost levels. High compression, high heat, high pressure...sorry, but I dont trust a mess of 1000 wires and some device that adds 5lbs of fuel pressure for every 1lb of boost...that just doesnt do it for me.
Anyone who has gone with Hondata or another standalone has said time and time again what a HUGE difference it has made in the driveability and powerband of the car...its not a fluke. We dont get paid for it
The differences with a JRSC are massive, as the shortcomings of the stock kit really are exposed.
Worthless and halfass are by no means the correct way to describe these products. Do they make as much power or a finer A/F ratio as hondata? No, but do they get the job done, yes. These products may not work as well as hondata, but they are by no means "shitty", so dont call them that. Does a Honda get you to point B as a Benz would? Yes, does it do it as well? No, but is it shitty because of that, definatly not.
gmoore</TD></TR></TABLE>
The analogy isnt really relevant.
What is being discussed here is the fine line you are walking with tuning your car most EFFICIENTLY, especially at high boost levels. High compression, high heat, high pressure...sorry, but I dont trust a mess of 1000 wires and some device that adds 5lbs of fuel pressure for every 1lb of boost...that just doesnt do it for me.
Anyone who has gone with Hondata or another standalone has said time and time again what a HUGE difference it has made in the driveability and powerband of the car...its not a fluke. We dont get paid for it
The differences with a JRSC are massive, as the shortcomings of the stock kit really are exposed.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Literally everywhere.
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (newgsrdriver)
Points taken, except the additional charges that a Hondata tuner will charge for access to the programming hardware.
My drivability is excellent. Fuel economy excellent. Boost transition is excellent. Maybe I'm lucky, but the point is TUNING - no matter which systems are used.
OT - Perhaps I should have been more clear with regard to my situation - there is not, to the best of my knowledge a standalone that works better than the FPR, MAP mod, BTC, and VAFC that I have. Perhaps I am the one case where Hondata hasn't shown that it can make any gains for me.
Anyway, back on topic. JRSC and up to 11Psi can and does work on stock internals.
TUNED.
My drivability is excellent. Fuel economy excellent. Boost transition is excellent. Maybe I'm lucky, but the point is TUNING - no matter which systems are used.
OT - Perhaps I should have been more clear with regard to my situation - there is not, to the best of my knowledge a standalone that works better than the FPR, MAP mod, BTC, and VAFC that I have. Perhaps I am the one case where Hondata hasn't shown that it can make any gains for me.
Anyway, back on topic. JRSC and up to 11Psi can and does work on stock internals.
TUNED.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Richmond Hill,Toronto, Canada
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (newgsrdriver)
thanx y'all for helping me out! Especially newgsrdriver! Yea we newbies will b asking for boosting and SC questions 4 sure around here guys+gals around here got deep knowledge 
I felt like i've been taken 2 school but its all good i don't wanna b the silly guy who dumps loads of money into my ride and it has poor efficiency and power gains!
thanx for the advice for JRSC i'm sticking wit my plan of buying one. I only plan to go for 6-8 psi boost cleanly and simply without having to worry about fine tuning and engine life so much (as with higher boost pressures from turbos). Now feel much better about supercharging and turbo boosting. Oh lingo probs! wha does FMU and standalone mean? sorry guys
I felt like i've been taken 2 school
but its all good i don't wanna b the silly guy who dumps loads of money into my ride and it has poor efficiency and power gains!thanx for the advice for JRSC i'm sticking wit my plan of buying one. I only plan to go for 6-8 psi boost cleanly and simply without having to worry about fine tuning and engine life so much (as with higher boost pressures from turbos). Now feel much better about supercharging and turbo boosting. Oh lingo probs! wha does FMU and standalone mean? sorry guys
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,784
Likes: 0
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (Slow+Furious)
FMU- Fuel Managment Unit
A standalone is basically a system that takes over certain perameters of the ECU's jobs. The opposite of a "piggyback" unit, which works in conjunction with the ECU.
gmoore
A standalone is basically a system that takes over certain perameters of the ECU's jobs. The opposite of a "piggyback" unit, which works in conjunction with the ECU.
gmoore
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 1
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (96IntegraRS)
Did you try out Hondata, Im curious? I find it hard to believe that with the abilities Hondata has vs a boatload of piggybacks, Hondata wouldnt get the better tune. I would be willing to bet money if you hooked up an S200B and had a competent tuner go at it, youd have a smoother powerband with better results 
Not to knock your results though, dont take that the wrong way. Im sure youre setup is excellent with the piggybacks and tuning, but thats not to say it couldnt be improved with a system more capable.
Not to knock your results though, dont take that the wrong way. Im sure youre setup is excellent with the piggybacks and tuning, but thats not to say it couldnt be improved with a system more capable.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Literally everywhere.
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (newgsrdriver)
I haven't had the Hondata installed in my car. I am tempted to buy it, but the 5 or so other guys who have Hondata setup are making, at most, 186 HP (to my 193) with the same kinds of mods (header, exhaust, cooling, etc.).
So, I can only make an educated observation and say that my current setup is working better than the Hondata is (again on the B18B). I am trying to break the mystical 200 HP mark for an LS with stock internals, and I'm 7 horse shy - I'd say if the Hondata could find me 7 HP somewhere I'd buy it
To play devils' advocate against myself, I seem to have an unusually strong motor as far as the stock B series goes - this may be attributable to the sucess I have had with the bandaid approach, and thus the Hondata (we all know that this seems to be the "best" system out there at present) may work better. Engine - 100K and never cracked.
So I guess this is an offer to tuners out there - B18B1 with Hondata S200 & JRSC - can you break 200WHP?
So, I can only make an educated observation and say that my current setup is working better than the Hondata is (again on the B18B). I am trying to break the mystical 200 HP mark for an LS with stock internals, and I'm 7 horse shy - I'd say if the Hondata could find me 7 HP somewhere I'd buy it
To play devils' advocate against myself, I seem to have an unusually strong motor as far as the stock B series goes - this may be attributable to the sucess I have had with the bandaid approach, and thus the Hondata (we all know that this seems to be the "best" system out there at present) may work better. Engine - 100K and never cracked.
So I guess this is an offer to tuners out there - B18B1 with Hondata S200 & JRSC - can you break 200WHP?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,784
Likes: 0
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (96IntegraRS)
Out of curiosity, was your car dynoed on a Dyno Jet? Just wanted to make sure your not making the same power as me with a b1. Lemme know.
gmoore
Lemme know.gmoore
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 1
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (96IntegraRS)
Theyre making 186whp@9PSI with Hondata?
Remember, again, its all in the tuning and your specific setup. I bet a good tuner will find a way to squeeze out 7 more peak HP somewhere...
Id go Hondata man. You can sell all that stuff and maybe even come out on top. Look at what Hondata can do in terms of power and efficiency, and even though "if it aint broke dont fix it" applies, when the system is that much more effective, upgrading will only increase your potential to hit those #'s.
What header/cat/exhaust are you running as well?
Remember, again, its all in the tuning and your specific setup. I bet a good tuner will find a way to squeeze out 7 more peak HP somewhere...
Id go Hondata man. You can sell all that stuff and maybe even come out on top. Look at what Hondata can do in terms of power and efficiency, and even though "if it aint broke dont fix it" applies, when the system is that much more effective, upgrading will only increase your potential to hit those #'s.
What header/cat/exhaust are you running as well?
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 0
From: CT
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at it this way:
Hondata S200B: $450
DSM 450s: $50
Tuning, figure 3hrs dyno/PT = $500
GT = $1000
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this the realistic prices for the system? If so where can I get a Hondata system for that much? I thought that the hondata with the boost option would be more. Also DSM injectors are that cheap these days?
Right now I'm running 12lbs on a m62 blower on my b18b and it feels pretty strong but I really want to tune it properly. I was looking to go with the hondata system but I thought the actual costs were more like ~1500 to get everything running and setup.
Hondata S200B: $450
DSM 450s: $50
Tuning, figure 3hrs dyno/PT = $500
GT = $1000
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this the realistic prices for the system? If so where can I get a Hondata system for that much? I thought that the hondata with the boost option would be more. Also DSM injectors are that cheap these days?
Right now I'm running 12lbs on a m62 blower on my b18b and it feels pretty strong but I really want to tune it properly. I was looking to go with the hondata system but I thought the actual costs were more like ~1500 to get everything running and setup.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 1
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (allmotorls95)
Good point...
Anyway, if youre OBD1, the price of the S200B system floats around there depending on who you get it from. I picked up my DSMs for under $50 with 50k on them...theyre super cheap. Also to clear up any confusion, there are no costs incurred for the tuner to unlock the datalogging, etc features in Hondata in order to tune, as it doesnt happen. The tuner will use his software which will be completely unlocked. There is no extra charge to tune your car with a system equipped with the basic features. The only downside is you cant tune it yourself.
Edit - I have to clear something up as well with AEM...AEM definitely has more features, but for the guy who wants his car efficiently tuned for street and competition, he will never see the benefits of the added features from AEM. Never mind it being over 2x the price if youre OBD1. Its just not worth the money for most people to run AEM over Hondata.
Anyway, if youre OBD1, the price of the S200B system floats around there depending on who you get it from. I picked up my DSMs for under $50 with 50k on them...theyre super cheap. Also to clear up any confusion, there are no costs incurred for the tuner to unlock the datalogging, etc features in Hondata in order to tune, as it doesnt happen. The tuner will use his software which will be completely unlocked. There is no extra charge to tune your car with a system equipped with the basic features. The only downside is you cant tune it yourself.
Edit - I have to clear something up as well with AEM...AEM definitely has more features, but for the guy who wants his car efficiently tuned for street and competition, he will never see the benefits of the added features from AEM. Never mind it being over 2x the price if youre OBD1. Its just not worth the money for most people to run AEM over Hondata.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Richmond Hill,Toronto, Canada
Re: Newbie questions: Jackson Racing Supercharger on 98 GS-R (newgsrdriver)
Ok perfect I'm sold on the Hondata, but being up across the border here in Toronto, Canada the chances of buying Hondata chips are uncertain. If we can grab some the other question is experienced mechanics that can tune these chips. Lets say worse case scenario and Hondata chips are unavailable whats the next best combo? JR Boost Timing Control and Mapping Control? AEM? I'm just looking for chips that will gimme 6-8psi and keep my engine life long as possible wit JRSC. Thanx again