Let's get a B16 thread going.. mods to get to 180-200 whp, times, etc... general theories, building tips etc.

 

Good idea...I think there are enough of us interested in the tuning potential with this engine.

I can't add much to it though, as I'm hoping to hit about 150whp with my setup which is very stock ish.

 

I want to know too. Come on people enlighten us.

 

I'll start-

Basically I have a second gen USDM bottom- Stock
JUN III cams/springs/gears
Stock JDM first gen head- no PNP
JUN header- on it's way to being sold and replaced with Header Tech triple step
Comptech Ice box
JUN ultralight fly
ACT clutch
Spoon thermostat/swithch/rad cap
ITR 2k1 USDM tranny
Hondata

Motor hit 173whp, and 107TQ

Chassis: 94 Hatch rear glass removed-lexan, completely gutted... no weight yet.

I race both SCCA and 1320.
QMT= 13.2@99.8mph on 15" slicks 2700ft evlevation and 85 degrees.....

 

i just just got done building a b16a1 it has
arias pistons bored out to 85mm with 12 to 1 compression
eagle rods
it's all balanced and blue printed
the head is pnp with a 3 angle valve grind
skunk 2 stage 3 cams along with full skunk2 valve train and intake manifold
70mm thrttle body
excedy chrome ally fly wheel
meziere electric water pump
y1 cable tranny with lsd
dc header for right now soon to get junked though
sx fuel regulator, dsm 450cc injectors and a bunch of just small thing like arp head studs and vafc,
i have yet to put it in my car. for know it is just sitting in my living room, but it should be up and runing in a couple weeks.

 

For those of you that have read the CTR/ITR/GSR debate thread in this forum. Did you realize that Foo didn't have the CTR pistons? I was pretty surprised when I found that out. So IF you're using the PR3 pistons, how else would you get compression? I'm scared to mill the head because of my cams... it happened before-- valve to piston interferance--

 

i just wrote all this out on another post. one more wont kill me.
from what i know i've yet to ever see anything above mine. thats why importbuilders dubbed me record holder.
omniman from skunk2 claims to have had one push out over 200 but his graph showed over 125TQ so i have to disbeleive this is on stock bore.

1 series(pr3) block
port and polished head by(www.dh-racing.com) DAVE HICKMAN
DAVE HICKMAN crank pulley(same one BISI uses.quality peice!!)

ericks racing TB and GSR manifold.
spoon head gasket
aem-fuel regulator,fuel rail, and cam gears
CTR cams
YS1 tranny,non-LSD
JG headers
chipped ECU
dyno is avaliable for viewing at http://www.importreview.com
after 50 passes and 3 hours on the dyno EACH AT almost 10,000 RPMS
the car made 190 to the wheels and 113.
peak power was at 9000 rpms
fuel pressure at 25 lbs. and timing at 6 degrees

feel free to ask me anything about this set up. i ran it about 6 months before selling it to some kid in arkansas for an obscene amount of money. he is still running it today.


Modified by letholone at 10:02 PM 7/7/2003

 

it's safe to assume you had a GSR head on there, but what pistons were you using? Compression? That's pretty impressive considering you only had the R cams...

 

the block was never opened when purchased from watanabe motors. so it was still stock pr3 pistons from the 1 series. and it was an AUTOMATIC MOTOR....
gsr head yes
compression im assuming was around 11-1 with the GSR head and the spoon gasket and slight mill. 15-20 thousandths

 

So wait are you telling me no one has broken 190 on a B16 N/A? Does that only count 81mm bore? You did use a GSR head, but the numbers you got from that set-up are very impressive? Why the low fuel pressure and timing? 6 degrees?

 

yea, strictly counting stock block numbers. 81 bore- honda pistons. i dont know of a single person whose broke 190 before.

as for the low timing and fuel, i really dont know. it was the computer i was using was a prototype chip a friend tried out and it dumped a ton of timing and fuel through the ECU, so much that i had to back it off through the FPR and cam timing.

also the cams were only set at intake +1 and EX +1

 

wow... very interesting... You hit 190 with 11:1 compression, roughly. I'm thinking about going to 12:1, but I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off at a lower compression.

 

Here is my setup.

b16 block GE sleeved bored 84mm
Je 12.5.1 comp. pistons
eagle rods
micropolished and champhered (sp) crank
alaniz p/p head w/ highlift valve springs and retainers
jun 3, toda c's, or ef-1 camsneed more info on these
skunk2 IM with 68mm or 70 mm t/b
HeaderTech header
AEM CAI
JDM ITR or Y21 trans with 4.78 and lsd
clutchmasters flywheel and clutchnet clutch

All to be tuned w/ Hondata or AEM EMS
I am hoping for over 200 with this.

 

Heres mine currently "under construction"

Stock B16a3 head with ITR springs and toda Spec A's
B16 Intake manifold/throttle body.
S2000 injectors
Comptech Ice box.
B16a3 block with 93 GS-R crank/ rods with CTR pistons
Spoon flwheel w/ ITR clutch.
ITR tranny with ATS 3,4,and 5.
Header unknown??

Anyone with info on doing the OEM 1.7 crank, Please post. thanks

 

so you're using a GSR crank AND rods?

 

Yes from a 92-93

 

I'm interested in what you had to do to make that work? I've got the parts just laying in my shop... it can't be just pnp... can it??

 

I had come across an issue of Banzai here at the office with a 99 Civic VTi Jordan Edition with all spoon parts that produced over 230+hp - redline 12000+rpm! and thats without overboring or FI of any kind... and no Nitrous either! I can't find the issue anymore cause someone swiped it.

The shop that made it is b-factory based in the U.K. URL is http://www.b-factory.co.uk ... its not up for now, but you can contact ricardo as he's left his e-mail on the site

cheers!

happy tuning

(:

 

Consider this: Johnny Hondaman, looking at installing an LS/VTEC or B18C into his cherished ride. Here are his options:

B18C: 1797cc of displacement 1.58:1 r/s ratio

LS/VTEC 1834cc of displacement 1.54:1 r/s ratio
So what's a guy to do? I have a better idea.

The Alternatives
So now consider these-

For the same price tag as that B18C, you could do this: B16A1 Cylinders bored and sleeved to 86 mm Forged rods and pistons, 12.5:1 cr

And have the following results: 1789cc of displacement 1.74:1 r/s ratio

For the same price as an LS/VTEC, you could do this:

B16A1 Block, Cylinders bored and sleeved to 86 mm, Forged rods and pistons, 12.5:1 c/r and B17A crank

And have the following results: 1891cc of displacement 1.68:1 r/s ratio.

 

Ok, here is the setup in my old si coupe, 2600lbs... did a 15.0 ( consistent 2.6 60' time shitty dunlops) at 95mph... 85 degrees, 100% humidity and 1100 foot elavation.

2000 B16a2 stock block, but rotationally balanced at 9k.
2001 ITR stock head, portflow springs, crower retainers, toda gen 1 gears, toda spec b cams, mugen headgasket, 3" mandrel bent intake, ITR intake manifold, si throttle body.
Also had SMSP b16 street header 2 5/8" collector, 2.5" carsound cat, 2.5" custom exhaust, 5Zigen border 304 muffler, yoshio chipped p72 ecu, vafc tuned.
With the a/c and power steering belts still on it Dyno'd 180/120 .. technically 179.8
I think i could've gotten 5-6whp from taking off those belts, but ran out of dyno time.
I want to build another motor like it, except toda c's, bigger injectors, bigger t.b, ctr slugs or JE 12:1+ compression and maybe 84.5mm sleeves... i am pretty sure it would hit 200/125 without the 84.5mm.
It made peak hp at 8400rpm and peak tq at 7200 or so ... to bad when i went from 172/110 to 180/120 .. i ate the new timing belt and locked 2 valves in the keepers... i didn't make enough to redo it right then and parted with everything.
I now have a low 1800lb/ high 1700lb car... low tq wouldn't hurt as much

 

well mates I'd like to inform you all what happens over here where we don't have the luxury of having accessibility to such great aftermarket products.

Usually to get our B16's up to 180+ hp we do the following

1 - aftermarket air filter in the stock filter box*

2 - reprofiled cams**

3 - chip programming by PowerChips moving VTEC point to about 4000+rpms

4 - Handmade exhaust manifold with larger pipe and catalyst

Now this may only sound like four rediculus steps but we've dyno'd this experiment and each time getting 180hp and above. Here in Greece its hard to find good aftermarket parts and if you find them they cost an arm and a leg.

* after hours and hours of dyno tests we found that cone filters simply do not work with hondas VTEC and on many cases cone shaped filters reduced horsepower and torque!
** providing that Type R cams cost way too much, we have found a way around this by taking stock cams and having them lightened and reprofiled.

note : forgive my lack of knowing the proper mechanical language, because although english is my first language I learned everything I know about engines in Greek so bear with me. Thnx

(:

 

Omniman built my b16 3 1/2 years ago with low comp pistons .25 us itr, since then it has made solid 185hp 120tq, best 1/4 12.97@103 i still drive the car every day.
b16a 91 civic dx
port and polish "sinisterracing"
itr intake man. ported
jg t/b
skunk stg 1s
itr valve springs
itr intake valves
itr lma
zdyne ecu/vafc
holley fuel pump

If this set up got me this much power in my hands, there is no doubt that Omniman can make over 200 whp with a 81mm bore

 

helpfull thread!
BUMP IT!!!

 

b16

 

ok kids... I'm working on a new motor... with the help of EF-1 and Rocket... stay tuned for more info!!!!

btw- looking for JUN III cams??? I'm selling mine!!!