I read a few times here that the brand new heads from ACURA ($1375 from Gettel Acura) are not ported and polished. Honda only ported and polished the heads going in the production line type-r.

I called Acura and they said as far as they know they are ported.

What's the truth?

 

they're ported

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2 B 4GO10 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read a few times here that the brand new heads from ACURA ($1375 from Gettel Acura) are not ported and polished. Honda only ported and polished the heads going in the production line type-r.

I called Acura and they said as far as they know they are ported.

What's the truth?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where is this Gettel Acura, does anybody have the phone #? Also do the heads come complete with cams, because I don't need the cams just the head so maybe it would be a little cheaper. Please let me know, Thanks!

 

did bert-o say they were not ported or where did you get than info ? I distinctly remember something being different in HOW the overstock itr heads were ported, but i still think they have it.

 

Bert said that as far as ke knows they are.

I read mulitple posts on H-T about it but I cannot recall the posts.. I use search and lot and it can get confusing.

 

I wouldn't call any stock ITR head "ported and polished".

They are slightly rebowled and ALL of them (purchased separately or in the car) are the same.

 

Quoted from
Original article written by Tamotsu Horikoshi, translated by Kaz Mori

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Naturally, porting and polishing excessively won't yield good results -- it will only upset the balance between displacement and peak rpm's. Some basic physics explained... In any cylindrical enclosure/piping, the closer air is to the metal wall, it will flow slower, and the closer it is to the center of the cylinder, it will flow faster. As rpm's increase, slight variations in the enclosure will cause for serious air flow disturbances. Logically speaking, a straight, cylindrical port would prevent any problems of air-flow disturbance, but with street cars and their limited engine bay space, the port has to be bent. The stock port is built to within such precision that it can already withstand rpm's of up to 7,000 rpm without creating any unwanted air-flow disturbances, but once it reaches 8,500 rpm, the engine struggles to keep the air flowing smoothly. To augment this problem, two of the best mechanics at Honda were selected and assigned to manually port and polish the engine components. Though this limits production to 25 engines a day, this allows for the engine to reach 8,500 rpm, and respectively, 200 horsepower. For those of us who want to port and polish our GS-R engine parts, unfortunately, Honda would not disclose to us the details of this procedure

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Damn, where did you get that info? I have always been looking for detailed descriptions on what was done to our cars. I wonder if there is a book about the building and designing of the ITR.

 

INTEGRA TYPE R
Honda's True "Tuner Car"
Original article written by Tamotsu Horikoshi, translated by Kaz Mori
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does Honda choose to tune the R by hand?
Japan's automobile makers are famous for using their experience and knowledge gained in the racing field and making use of it in their production lines for street cars. Well, the sad truth is that most of the time, such things are thrown around as hype -- most automobile makers will make a car "inspired" by racing, but they don't actually employ racing technology, and automobile makers never really "fully tune" their cars. However the Integra Type R is not so. Its racing spirit is not that of image, but is in its generous use of racing technology. The Type R is a car that comes fully tuned straight from the manufacturer.

In order to increase compression ratio, the side molds of the pistons were increased. (Pent-Roof-type Piston) The inside was shaved to balance out the total weight, and the aluminum pistons were forged in order to retain precision.


Though the easiest way to increase horsepower is by increasing displacement or installing a turbo, Honda has made its reputation by sticking to its NA engines. The Integra's VTEC B18C type engine retained its stock displacement, but Honda increased its horsepower from 180 to 200. It's only *20* horses more, but those 20 horses were really tweaked out using Honda's formula 1 knowledge -- from an engine that was already getting 100 horsepower per liter. Fumiyasu Suga, Type R's assistant chief engineer, was kind enough to sit down with us.
Currently, production line engines and engine parts are made by computer-guided NCR machines, and are of very high quality. However, Mr. Suga believes that in order to make a true race engine, some parts must be built/assembled by hand. In specific, the assembling of the engine, balancing parts, and porting and polishing need to be done by hand. Amazingly, all Type R engines are built this way.

Custom-made connecting rods for the Type R. It is made to withstand the higher rpm's, and is still lighter than the stock parts. These Type R parts are made with such precision that the weight difference between all four rods is so small that it is negligible.


Naturally, porting and polishing excessively won't yield good results -- it will only upset the balance between displacement and peak rpm's. Some basic physics explained... In any cylindrical enclosure/piping, the closer air is to the metal wall, it will flow slower, and the closer it is to the center of the cylinder, it will flow faster. As rpm's increase, slight variations in the enclosure will cause for serious air flow disturbances. Logically speaking, a straight, cylindrical port would prevent any problems of air-flow disturbance, but with street cars and their limited engine bay space, the port has to be bent. The stock port is built to within such precision that it can already withstand rpm's of up to 7,000 rpm without creating any unwanted air-flow disturbances, but once it reaches 8,500 rpm, the engine struggles to keep the air flowing smoothly. To augment this problem, two of the best mechanics at Honda were selected and assigned to manually port and polish the engine components. Though this limits production to 25 engines a day, this allows for the engine to reach 8,500 rpm, and respectively, 200 horsepower. For those of us who want to port and polish our GS-R engine parts, unfortunately, Honda would not disclose to us the details of this procedure.


The piston skirt was made lighter in order to lessen the inertial mass. Since lightening the piston causes the piston "neck" to rock back and forth, a molybdenum coating was applied to lessen friction.


Next, the valves and the valve springs needed to be upgraded in order to be able to withstand the high rpm's and the increased fuel injection. In order to increase air flow efficiency, the angle of the valve seat opening was tightened from 60 to 45 degrees. Also, bigger and lighter valves help to deliver more fuel. Instead of making the valve bigger, Honda engineers made the cone bigger and reduced the stem radius even further. In specific, the underside of the valve cone was shaved to its limit, and the valve shaft width was decreased from 5.5mm to 4.6mm -- making the valve 12% lighter than stock. Amazingly, the valves are made so precisely that their static balance differential is basically 0.0. We jokingly asked Mr. Suga what he would do if Honda's parts manufacturers sent over valves that had weight differences. His reply was quick and simple. "We would toss them out." Hm... very strict. Past 8,000 rpm, other valve-related problems occur. Such problems include surging, jumping, bouncing, etc... In order to prevent such problems, the valve springs are made by dual-bound springs. Furthermore, Honda used non-cylindrical, "flat" springs in order to keep the spring height near-stock, and still increase rebounding power.


Injectors installed on the underside of the pistons allow for improved cooling, and prevent the pistons from getting "burned-in".


The camshaft lift amount was changed for both intake and exhaust valves. The intake lift was increased from 10.6mm to 11.5mm, and the exhaust lift was increased from 9.4mm to 10.5mm. To compensate, the intake opening timing was increased from 10 to 15 degrees before piston apex, and closing timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees after the piston reaching base. Likewise, the exhaust opening timing was increased from 40 to 45 degrees before the piston reaching base, and the closing timing was increased from 7 to 10 degrees after piston apex. By doing so, the valves remain open longer -- allowing for more air to enter the combustion chamber.


Unlike the base crankshaft, additional balancing weights were added on number 1 and 4, and allows for smooth, high-rpm revving -- making it a 8-weight, fully-balanced crankshaft.
The attachment point of the connecting rods to the crankshaft uses a new, adjustable connector that allows the mechanics to manually adjust the connection using a micrometer so they can compensate for the stretching of the connecting rod bolt.

One of the keys to tuning a NA engine is the piston. In order to increase the compression ratio, aluminum, pent-roof-type pistons were used. In order to keep a good precision of mass, the aluminum pistons were forged. The piston ring was given more space to move around in, and to prevent piston "head" shake caused by the extra space, a molybdenum coating (also used in the NSX) was applied to lessen friction. The con rods are specially made for the Type R, and have a neat, little letter "R" molded onto it. The precision weight of these con rods are 2 levels above that of on-line production models. The weight differential between all four rods is so small that it is negligible, and all contacting surface areas are finished off with a race-car, mirror finish, and is connected to a fully balanced crankshaft. Furthermore, the assembly of the con rods and the crankshaft play an important role in attaining the high rpm's. In order to ensure perfect assembly, the engine is taken off-line and these parts are assembled by hand. A custom con rod micrometer gauge is used, and the stretching of the con rod bolt is taken into account for as the connections are tightened. This is something no machine can do, and this ensures that there aren't any unwanted vibrations at high rpm.


The dual-port intake manifold was "simplified" to a single-port -- allowing the torque curve peak to be at an unusually high 7,500 rpm. Very unusual indeed, but compliments the horsepower curve peak at 8,000 rpm.


In order to prevent engine knocking at high rpm's, NGK's high-spark #7 platinums are used. Honda is so meticulous with its Type R production that it actually coats the spark plug tip with silicone so the spark plug doesn't collect any unwanted deposits during the stop-and-go of transportation. (Wow... does that help any?)


Two of the best mechanics at Honda port and polish the manifolds by hand in order to create a high-rpm engine. Due to the manual process, only 25 engines a day can be created. Our sources have confirmed that their are now 5 mechanics working full time on port and polish. Ed.


The intake port was simplified from a dual-port to a single-port -- in hopes of making high-speed air flow better. The stock exhaust piping that varied in width from 48.6mm~50.8mm was upgraded to a full piping with 57.2mm width all the way. Furthermore, the fully stainless-steel header a-pipe employs a 4-2-1 design, but with no sharp edges in the A-pipe when going from 2 to 1. This is a feature that is said to be impossible to do in mass-production.


The valve springs are not cylindrical, but flat -- and made of dual-bound springs. This prevents the surging effect at high rpm's, and avoids any interference with the pistons. The cut-off area of the springs are done with the most extreme care.
Bigger valves have their advantages, but are heavier. The Type R's valves were redesigned so as to have a bigger cone area, but still be 12% lighter.

In overview, over 60 engine-related parts were changed or entirely re-designed for the Type R. We asked Mr. Suga for any other advice on tuning the Type R any further. He replied, "I would prefer that people don't try to further tune the Type R. No, actually, they shouldn't try. Each upgraded part works in perfect harmony, and fiddling with the factory setting will only lead to a decrease in performance." It's probably safe to say that the Type R is a rare, "fully tuned" and "stock" automobile.


In order to make exhaust air flow smoother, there are no sharp angles in the header. Furthermore, in order to lighten/strengthen the parts, stainless steel was used.
Impossible to do in mass-production, all exhaust piping is welded together with no sharp edges throughout. Also, the piping was upgraded to 57.2mm throughout to increase air flow.
The muffler is a multi-chamber design, and does a wonderful job of dissipating sound. However, the funnel-shaped piping in-between the chambers makes it a very free-flowing exhaust.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Integra Type R Specs
Bore/Stroke Stock
Displacement Stock
Compression Ratio 11.1
Valve Width See above
Plugs #7 Platinum
Throttle Body 62mm (+ 2mm of stock)
Intake Manifold Single Port
Air Intake Width 70mm (+ 5mm of stock)
Exhaust Piping 57.2mm (+6.4mm~8.6mm of stock)
Tail Pipe Width 76mm (+25.2mm of stock)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Gain (compared to GS-R)
Stiffer Suspension/High-grip tires +5.500kg
LSD +1.500kg
Performance Rod & Aluminum Make +3.440kg
Body Stiffening Metal Sheets +1.711kg
Strengthening Wheel Bolts & Bearings +0.704kg
Strengthening Tailgate Area +0.313kg
Stiffer Rubber Exhaust Piping Mounts +0.140kg
Recaro Seats +6.647kg
Front Spoiler +1.034kg
Rear Spoiler +2.900kg
Miscellaneous +1.160kg

Total Increase: +25.049kg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mass Reduction (compared to GS-R)
Lighten Flywheel -0.750kg
Lighter Engine, Exhaust Pipings -3.329kg
Aluminum Radiator -1.350kg
Compact Battery -3.000kg
Lighter Aluminum Wheels -5.200kg
Floor Sheetmetal Removed -10.665kg
Dashboard Insulator Removed -3.869kg
Fuel Tank Wave Absorber Removed -0.450kg
Floor Heat Panel Removed -0.272kg
Resin Spare Tire Lid -0.997kg
Aluminum Left-Side "Stopper Bracket" -1.300kg
MOMO Small-Radius Steering Wheel -0.700kg
Rear Wiper Removal -1.851kg
Car Stereo & Antenna Removal (optional) -5.665kg
Air Conditioner Removal (optional) -18.700kg
Miscellaneous -6.919kg

Total Decrease: -65.017kg
Best 1/4 E.T.: 14.66 "Bone" stock.

 

The bowls are ported. They are polished slightly, and I stress the word slightly.

I have my head off my car ready to be installed and I got a chance to look at the port job.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bowls are ported. They are polished slightly, and I stress the word slightly. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never ever once seen any polishing on the ports of an itr head.

 

Modified by Teg44 at 9:12 AM 7/15/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nikos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
INTEGRA TYPE R
Honda's True "Tuner Car"
Original article written by Tamotsu Horikoshi, translated by Kaz Mori

.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

copy, paste, save...
for someone who has always wanted to know more "history" about our cars, man, that stuff is gold.

I wonder how much of that is 100% accurate? Port and polished?? Any comments about anything else in that article sgT?

 

Looking in my ITRs ports the other day while it was on the engine stand I could see that the ports were not polished, there may have been porting done, but definately no polishing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bowls are ported. They are polished slightly, and I stress the word slightly.

I have my head off my car ready to be installed and I got a chance to look at the port job. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Was your head purchased new Len?

The post and the information provided above, shows some proof (not definitive) that if someone were to order an ITR head from Acura that it may just be a b16 head with no porting.

Cruzer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cruzersi00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Was your head purchased new Len?

The post and the information provided above, shows some proof (not definitive) that if someone were to order an ITR head from Acura that it may just be a b16 head with no porting.

Cruzer</TD></TR></TABLE>

Aren't the port bowl diffeently shaped between the ITR and B16 heads? or is an ITR head the same casing as a B16?

 

ITR head is the same PR3 casting as a B16A head with some VERY MINOR porting. Very, very minor. Not even worth considering in the purchase if you are going to be doing work to the head anyways, just get a B16A head and send it off to portflow, topspeed, etc if you want it P&P.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FizzleDaKlown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITR head is the same PR3 casting as a B16A head with some VERY MINOR porting. Very, very minor. Not even worth considering in the purchase if you are going to be doing work to the head anyways, just get a B16A head and send it off to portflow, topspeed, etc if you want it P&P.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ditto.

tom @ portflow is the man

 

The bowl porting that comes from Honda on the ITR heads ruins them for any sort of productive porting in the future. You'll also find that a good early B16 head with the "right" valve job will easily out-flow and out-perform the ITR heads.
We won't accept ITR heads for porting at Endyn, as you simply can't "revive" them. Who ever pocket-ports the heads removes so much material from the area beneath the seats that you can't create the proper venturi necessary on both intake and exhausts.
Do yourselves a favor and buy an early model B16 head. They have much less core-shift in the castings, so the port placement relative to the seat location is much more favorable. We believe the late-model B16 castings began going "south" in late 2000....and of course, 2000 and later ITR heads are based on them.....
Larry

 

holy interesting-information-overload batman!

more more more!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboChrgd_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Where is this Gettel Acura, does anybody have the phone #? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Gettel Acura
3480 BEE RIDGE ROAD
SARASOTA, FL 34239
(941) 921-2655

yshi - who got gettel's info from AHM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Woofer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bowl porting that comes from Honda on the ITR heads ruins them for any sort of productive porting in the future. You'll also find that a good early B16 head with the "right" valve job will easily out-flow and out-perform the ITR heads.
We won't accept ITR heads for porting at Endyn, as you simply can't "revive" them. Who ever pocket-ports the heads removes so much material from the area beneath the seats that you can't create the proper venturi necessary on both intake and exhausts.
Do yourselves a favor and buy an early model B16 head. They have much less core-shift in the castings, so the port placement relative to the seat location is much more favorable. We believe the late-model B16 castings began going "south" in late 2000....and of course, 2000 and later ITR heads are based on them.....
Larry</TD></TR></TABLE>

What year B16 head do you recommend porting for a 2000 and up ITR?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FizzleDaKlown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITR head is the same PR3 casting as a B16A head with some VERY MINOR porting. Very, very minor. Not even worth considering in the purchase if you are going to be doing work to the head anyways, just get a B16A head and send it off to portflow, topspeed, etc if you want it P&P.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a 92 JDM B16 head that I was going to use on my turbo setup, but decided to go with a 96 JDM ITR head used that I got a good deal on. I'm basically just using it to extend my redline a little (500rpm's)... To me it was worth it. When I have the money I will send the B16 head off to Portflow to get the full treament! In your opinion or anyone else in here would you say that I wasted my money? Just curious.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Woofer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bowl porting that comes from Honda on the ITR heads ruins them for any sort of productive porting in the future. You'll also find that a good early B16 head with the "right" valve job will easily out-flow and out-perform the ITR heads.
We won't accept ITR heads for porting at Endyn, as you simply can't "revive" them. Who ever pocket-ports the heads removes so much material from the area beneath the seats that you can't create the proper venturi necessary on both intake and exhausts.
Do yourselves a favor and buy an early model B16 head. They have much less core-shift in the castings, so the port placement relative to the seat location is much more favorable. We believe the late-model B16 castings began going "south" in late 2000....and of course, 2000 and later ITR heads are based on them.....
Larry</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, thanks for the excellent info Larry.

So, all that said, we should be looking for 1999 or early B16 heads and/or 97-98 ITR heads.... Correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboChrgd_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have a 92 JDM B16 head that I was going to use on my turbo setup, but decided to go with a 96 JDM ITR head used that I got a good deal on. I'm basically just using it to extend my redline a little (500rpm's)... To me it was worth it. When I have the money I will send the B16 head off to Portflow to get the full treament! In your opinion or anyone else in here would you say that I wasted my money? Just curious. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well, coming from a B16 to an ITR head.. if you wanted the ITR springs, valves and cams then I'd say it was worth it. Since you are boosted you aren't planning on going with bigger cams, etc in which case I would have said you wasted your $$.