This is a several part question. I have carbotech P+ pads that I use only for track days. I've ran 3 track days on them and have 2 days coming up in July. I don't know how far down you should let the pads go before replacing them because I've never replaced track pads yet. My questions are:

1: Judging from the picture can you please tell me about how many track days I can get out of them before I need to buy another set.

2: I have the fastbrakes 11" kit up front for my CRX with integra calipers but I forgot if fastbrakes used the 90-93 teg calipers or a diff year and are they GSR or not? argh!

3: Are there any other pads of equal or greater performance than the P+'s but for a similar or smaller price? (I'm not a novice driver and tend to late brake often).

Thank you VERY much for you time in advance.
Pics:

 

Very hard to tell from the pictures how long they'll last. And it depends on what track you're going to, your skill level...all kinds of things. I'd say that if you're in doubt, bring spares. Better safe than sorry.

Are there better pads? Depends. Better at what? The Panther Plus is the best brake pad I know of that can be driven on the track at *real* speeds, yet are usable around town, easy on rotors, and fairly durable. I don't know of a pad that does as many things as well at *any* price...and the Carbotech prices are pretty reasonable.

 

Good kit, same one here. 90-93 integra pads/calipers, which were also used on quite a few other hondas. From the pics, looks like your about 50% or so on your pads. That line in the middle is your wear indicator, when that's gone, or almost gone, time for new pads.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are there better pads? Depends. Better at what? The Panther Plus is the best brake pad I know of that can be driven on the track at *real* speeds, yet are usable around town, easy on rotors, and fairly durable. I don't know of a pad that does as many things as well at *any* price...and the Carbotech prices are pretty reasonable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree about the P+'s.. they've been fantastic! But for the time being I'm not at the "wealthy" stage of my life yet therefore the price question. I will most likely get them again from carbotech because I figure a better deal will be rare but it was worth a shot to ask though.

For more info on the use of my pads I've run at Laguna Seca on them and 2 days at Pacific Raceways in Seattle. Pac. Raceways doesn't seem to be as demanding on brakes as Laguna though... Perhaps it would have been more accurate to ask: is it uncommon for P+'s to last 6+ track days or is 6 pushing it? I am a demanding driver but then again my brakes are only stopping a 2200lb car. On lapping days I don't like to reduce my braking effots and distances because I'm "worried about my brakes".

 

the best cheap pad that actually works is the Raybestos Ceramic Enhanced "RCE" pads available from Pep Boys. I've gone through al least 5 sets. they are very durable actually. I don't recall ever experiencing any real brake fades with the RCE. On very rare occasionas it has "hinted" padfade, but I have never lost more than a little of Mu.

last wed at thunderhill it was 100+F at thunderhill. the brakes were truly toasty. remix does not have brake ducting. the pad wear was still good. and datalogger shows it generates about -0.9g even just on street tires. i ran a session, swapped in Cobalt Friction sports pad. Difference was very noticable. Braking distance reduced by 10-15 feet at each braking zone. Datalogger shows about .1 to .15g more negative g. Roughly 10-15%. Modulation effort is about the same between the two, altho back to back driving, Colbalt Friction feels better. Actual lap time reduction with pad change alone is minimal... I did not get any clean laps with the CF pads so can't directly compare. Under w2w racing, the deeper braking available would be very welcoming. Not much of a difference in DE environment tho.

 

1) They look pretty good from the pics. Still pretty good thickness on those. A back up set of something is never a bad idea (I've NEVER gone to the track without spares. Even with brandy-new pads)

2) Looks like the 3rd gen GS-R pad to me, but IIRC the 90-93 pad looks pretty similar to it. I'll have to check my books on Monday.

3) With our lower prices this year AND the Honda-Tech discount we give, you will look for a long time for a better overall performing pad for your purpose at a better price.

 

It depends on how many hours you will be driving per day, what track, etc... (like everyone already said.) I just got back from Moroso yesterday and ran an old set of P+ I had laying around all the way down to the backing plates! I started the day with a little less than what I can see from your pictures. I ran 4-5 hours on track (180 miles!) and it was hot as hell. But, I would do some more research on the next pad you want to buy and purchase them before your event and bring them as spares. I brought both the Cobalt GT-Sports as well as Ultimates as backup just incase.

 

26K street miles with about 4 events on mine,

ran them to the rivets (FYI)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_classic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">life of carbotech P+ pads?</TD></TR></TABLE>
In my application.. a little over 3 track days.

 

Well as far as your pads lasting thats hard to say.
As far as quality of pads it depends on what you want.
A realy good track pad would be the HAWK performance pad in BLUE compound.
That is the most popular pad with the SCCA club level through Pro level racing.
If you want your rotors to last longer with a "full race pad" you need to get them cryogenicly hardend.
Also you need to get a pyrometer and test the temp range of your brakes and rotors. Each pad compound has a dif operational temp range. If you are running the wrong temp range you will lose ALOT of brake performace and life.
As far as getting Hawk pads.... I can market them to you (spectorracing motorsports) or you can go to "www.discoveryparts.com" .
My self and discovery have the lowest prices on Hawk pads on the east coast. You can get them about $5 to $10 cheaper on the west coast but it will cost you much more in shipping.
Hope this is helpfull
Good luck with all your racing.
Ralph Howe
SPECTORracing Motorsprots

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPECTORracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also you need to get a pyrometer and test the temp range of your brakes and rotors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How about heat sensitive paint? Much cheaper and easier.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPECTORracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A realy good track pad would be the HAWK performance pad in BLUE compound.
That is the most popular pad with the SCCA club level through Pro level racing. ...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as getting Hawk pads.... I can market them to you (spectorracing motorsports) or you can go to "www.discoveryparts.com" .
My self and discovery have the lowest prices on Hawk pads on the east coast. </TD></TR></TABLE>hmmmm.......no wonder....

 

Rice_Classic: It looks like those pads are for the 90-93 Integra. And they are VERY VERY similar to the 94+ Integra pad.

Matt

 

5 days at VIR full, with no street driving other than going to VIR and back to the hotel.

but then again i'm slow, so i don't use much brakes...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_classic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1: Judging from the picture can you please tell me about how many track days I can get out of them before I need to buy another set.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

looks about half worn , still good to go IMHO.....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_classic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3: Are there any other pads of equal or greater performance than the P+'s but for a similar or smaller price? </TD></TR></TABLE>

no.
especially if you street the pads , XP's work fine on the street for me also but the heat range is a little different.

FYI -
10,000 street miles and 9 weekends on my P+ , still had material on them when I moved up to XP's.

 

How the hell are you guys getting 10k street miles and 9 events out of the P+??
What do these "weekends" consist of? I was only able to get 3 events out of my P+ (2 weekends @ Sebring full with about 4-5 hours of track time per event, and 1 event @ Moroso with another 4-5 hours.) Virtually no street driving. Does 12-15 hours on-track equate to 9 weekends?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_classic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know how far down you should let the pads go before replacing them because I've never replaced track pads yet. My questions are:

1: Judging from the picture can you please tell me about how many track days I can get out of them before I need to buy another set.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As others have noted, it's hard to tell from the angle of the photos how much pad thickness is left.

New brake pads usually come with pad material 11 mm thick for front pads, and 9 mm thick for rear pads.

According to the service manual, you should replace pads when the pad material is 1.6 mm thick. I don't buy that for track use; on the track, the pads will get VERY hot and you want a little more thickness there. Also, when the pad material gets thin, it wears even quicker. I like to replace mine when the material is 2 to 3 mm thick.

You can calculate how long your pads might last by checking how many events (better yet, how many actual track miles) and how many mm of pad material you've used already, and assume that they will continue to wear at approximately the same rate. But this will only give you an approximation; you will want to check them as often as needed to make sure you have pad material on there. I check the edge of my outside pads after every track session by looking between the spokes of my wheels. At the start of the event, when I'm swapping tires, I check to make sure the inside pad is wearing evenly with the outside pad (or I note any differences in wear).



Modified by nsxtasy at 5:50 PM 6/30/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How the hell are you guys getting 10k street miles and 9 events out of the P+??
</TD></TR></TABLE>

compress your brake zone.
besides my car only weighs 2320 with my *** in it and a half tank O' gas.

BTW - I'm NOT gentle in the brake zone.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do these "weekends" consist of? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I average over 200 miles on track per weekend , alot at Summit which is semi hard on brakes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does 12-15 hours on-track equate to 9 weekends?</TD></TR></TABLE>

um , no
I get around 6 hours per weekend at events lately.

3 weekends on the XP's and they havent even shown signs of wear yet

second set of pads on the same rotors btw...

 

Damn Doc, that is some incredible pad life. Can I please send customers who buzz through pads in 2 weekends to you for lessons in brake management?

FWIW, Panther Plus is our best wearing compound. I have personally gotten 5 weekends out of the last set I used in '02. One weekend was at CMP, one was at VIR-south, another at Jefferson circuit. I consider those to be a who's-who of hard braking tracks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">According to the service manual, you should replace pads when the pad material is 1.6 mm thick. I don't buy that for track use; on the track, the pads will get VERY hot and you want a little more thickness there. Also, when the pad material gets thin, it wears even quicker. I like to replace mine when the material is 2 to 3 mm thick.

You can calculate how long your pads might last by checking how many events (better yet, how many actual track miles) and how many mm of pad material you've used already, and assume that they will continue to wear at approximately the same rate. But this will only give you an approximation; you will want to check them as often as needed to make sure you have pad material on there. I check the edge of my outside pads after every track session by looking between the spokes of my wheels. At the start of the event, when I'm swapping tires, I check to make sure the inside pad is wearing evenly with the outside pad (or I note any differences in wear).</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was a fantastic response! The calculation of miles versus milimeter in wear is a great idea, I'm frustrated that I didn't think of it earlier!

Reminds me of the old adage: "give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime."

 

Only problem is, as the pads wear thinner, they wear at a faster rate. It's not linear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Only problem is, as the pads wear thinner, they wear at a faster rate. It's not linear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I already said that, didn't I? Yes, I did.

However, the acceleration of the wear only starts to get really noticeable when the pads are pretty worn down, at which point you should already be checking them after every track session.

As I mentioned, the calculation of the wear rate of the pads (based on track miles) is useful as an approximation. I've found that it works quite well. For example, if I've used up 2 mm at one track event, I can reliably go into the next track event knowing that I will have at least half of the pad material left after it's over.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can I please send customers who buzz through pads in 2 weekends to you for lessons in brake management?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

send em

I need to call you anyway Matt...

 

who buzz through pads in 2 weekends to you for lessons in brake management?


lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I ran 4-5 hours on track (180 miles!) </TD></TR></TABLE>

most ppl way over estimate the hour usage. if you really were on track 4 hours, that means your average track speed was only like 45 mph?? that's not right. so the rear hours is a lot less. track miles is probably a better way to rank wear. even then, it's track dependent.

yesterday i put myself to the test, and ran for about 75 min straight. i completed 31 laps. it was at buttonwillow in the #1 ccw (longest config) which is about 3.0 miles. pad wear was not bad at all. 0.5 mm, maybe 1 mm max (Colbalt Friction GT Sports compound). with some brake ducting i'm sure the pads would've been better. the Toyo RA1 wore quite a bit though.

i drove it at sprint race pace. it was a good test of discipline and concentration. i was pretty exhausted afterwards. i gotta get me some cool suit or something. 110F was a killer.