I saw a thread about the wiseco pistons and stock sleeves, I just wanted to inject that I too am runing forged pistons on stock sleeves. I am using JE 9:1 compression 87mm (I think it's 87 mm) pistons with the stock sleeves.

This was not done by choice... I did not know. I had the motor pulled, took it to Ryder's Race Engines and had them build it. When I found out about FRM... I called him. He mentioned a coating he put on the sleeves, said it would be fine.

I have 20,000 miles of HARD driving on the new motor without any issues. I do not burn oil, and I have excellent compression. (I've had it tested 4 times since I got it.)

I am not recomending this setup to anyone... In fact since I've learned about it, I've been waiting for it to blow... even bought another h23 to build. when this one goes.

Anyone know what kinda coating it coulda been? And should I expect it to continue to last or what?


Modified by TurboNOSlude at 7:47 AM 6/17/2003

 

As far as coatings for cyl walls the only thing I can think of is some kind of dry film lubricant or solid film lubricant or possibly Naskil (sp?) coating. Is it possible that he had the pistons coated? That would be another alternative to coating the whole cylinder wall surface. You do know that other engines that have FRM run forged slugs right? Consider yourself lucky for the time being. And thanks for being the unwilling sole who gets to find out if this really works in the long run.

 

Hey by any chance is your name chuck if so i met you at the oc show i was the kid talkin to you for a bit but besides that after that show i went to my bros shop in bel air and asked him if he ever heard of any company using anything else besides sleeves and he said no and i explained to him what you told me and he said they might of told you that so they wouldnt be held responsible

 

...

 

I'm really curious as of what coating he used on the cylinder walls. You would think that any type of antifriction coating on the cylinder walls would hinder heat transfer out of the piston rings. Coating the piston skirts would be a possible solution, since the whole reason Honda used them in the first place was due to the sidecocking of the piston that the wide rod angle/big stroke produced as RPM increases.


Modified by H22Si at 10:20 AM 6/17/2003

 

Coating on the cylinder walls? Bullshit.
He just didn't want to take it all apart again. He fed you a line of crap.

Call his *** up and make him tell you specifically what he did to that thing.
That pisses me off... I hate lying shop owners.

As for the motor:
You may have gotten lucky. Who knows. I have heard of people pulling it off.

Then again, I've also seen motors where the walls have gummed up and the motor locked. So..... like I tell everyone else: good luck.

 

Turbolude22- Yes thats me

Everyone else... I don't know how or why my engine lasted... even I did not think it would. As for the "race coating" as he called it, he said it is from a company JE refered him to; named "Century 2001"

I said, "Oh the real-estate company?" he said no, he was serious that was the name. He then said that street bikes use the "race coating" all the time when they run forged pistons, and that my motor is perfectly relaiable to 18 psi on pump gas. And I could run up to 25 on race gas.

I don't believe him, never will. I am turning up the boost... to 12 psi. But only to fix some of my tuning gremlins assocciated with my wastegate. And I already have a motor ready to go.

I just want people to learn from my screwup. RESLEEVE YOUR BLOCK.

 

I have heard that a couple of people had used http://www.swaintech.com/index.html I think that is one of the companies that people used, search the archives for the threads about forged pistons w/o resleeving.

 

turbonoslude,did you see him put the forged pistons in?How much did he charge you for everything.I know that Having a coating put on cylinder walls is expensive.I say you should drop your oil pan and see if he really did put the forged pistons.For all we know,he could have just gave you a stock rebuild.im also calling BS on the cylinder wall coating he said he put.

 

Positive of it... the engine shop sent the motor back in peices as they finished the block first and we were in a hurry to get the car together for the track/show season. I don't have any pictures but let me just say the block was gorgous, I got up to the shop and there were like 10 people just staring at it.

Then we put on the head completed break in and tuned the baby. Total price was $2,300 parts/labor on the build. (JE Pistons, Crower Rods, 20mm overboar new bearings... yada yada)

I will have a better Idea how capable the motor is in a month or so. I got new injectors and I plan on retuing the car. I wanna make a run before we swap the injectors just to see if the car is down on power at all. And of course yet another compression test

 

20mm overbore?Or do you mean .020" overbore,which would be .50mm overbore?Well...good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboNOSlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then we put on the head completed break in and tuned the baby. Total price was $2,300 parts/labor on the build. (JE Pistons, Crower Rods, 20mm overboar new bearings... yada yada) </TD></TR></TABLE>

With that much money you should have just gotten it resleeved.
Darton sleeves $500
Labor for sleeves ready to put pistons in $760
Pistons and rods $800
Assembly of rods and pistons, new bearings $250

I spent around what you have, but i assembled everything except the rods and pistons and i have "bullet proof" sleeves. Of course i went with Eagle rods so it would have cost you roughly 300 more, but you get the idea.

 

Now this is something I have heard of:
"Boring past the main layer of FRM."

To be honest, it's a mystery to me. Is it true? Can it be done? Does it work? How thick is the FRM coating? What are the metalic properties behind it?

I dunno. I never bothered getting that involved. I mearly sleeve my blocks and go about my business. Best of luck to you though.

 

I would have- if I had known anything about it when I did it. All of what I've learned, has been learned as a result of my engine build experience.

I wish I could go back and do it again, but I don't have the cash right now.

 

Why do you regret anything? You have 20k and no problems?!?! Sounds like you got the good cheap build......