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Objective: Looking for experience and feedback from RS/LS owners who have upgraded their headers.

Your input is appreciated.

 

i would also like to hear these suggestions...

 

RS and LS models are better suited with 4-2-1 headers because of the lack of VTEC and most of there powerband being in the middle of the rpm band.

 

Actually, it's the other way around. 4-1 is better for non-vtec, and 4-2-1 is better for vtec.

 

you sure? ive read otherwise.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, it's the other way around. 4-1 is better for non-vtec, and 4-2-1 is better for vtec.</TD></TR></TABLE>

[QUOTE=MAV3RiCK478]RS and LS models are better suited with 4-2-1 headers because of the lack of VTEC and most of there powerband being in the middle of the rpm band.[QUOTE]

i see we have a debate...

 

as written by Michael Delaney on the Team-Integra Forum:

"Shorter primaries, larger diameters, 4-1 layout, and big collectors will have higher peak hp because 240 ft/sec is obtained later along the higher rpms. The torque is kept higher after peak torque.

Longer primaries, smaller diameters, 4-2-1 layout, and smaller collectors will have peak torque occurring earlier in the rpm band because 240 ft/sec is achieved earlier and the torque before peak torque is kept higher."

But ofcourse there are other design effects that can make a custom made header have both, as long as you have the cash.

 

Ok, that doesn't make sense to me. But 4-1 makes top end power which ls/gs/rs lacks. And 4-2-1 makes low end power, which gsr/r lack. That is how I learned it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, that doesn't make sense to me. But 4-1 makes top end power which ls/gs/rs lacks. And 4-2-1 makes low end power, which gsr/r lack. That is how I learned it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, lets try it this way. 4-1 makes top end power, how is an LS engine which is made with low/midrange power gonna use a header made for top end when the engine doesn't make any top end power? if the engine isn't designed to generate power at the high rpms the header isn't gonna generate the horsepower for it, its just there to make it more efficient and release air better.

 

Ok, that makes sense. But my autotech teacher told me that the 4-1 will help create high end power for the ls engine.

 

ok let me get my question in here...

wouldnt putting a 4-1 on a ls make u want to rev high to where the header is giving you power thus causing u to want to be in the higher rpm range more often and putting more of a strain on the ls motor...being that the ls wasnt really designed to be in the upper rpm range that much..unless built for it but in talking on stock internals or am i wrong?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, that makes sense. But my autotech teacher told me that the 4-1 will help create high end power for the ls engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it might create a little and i mean 1 or 2hp but nothing that you're gonna feel. you have to consider the internals of the engine and how it is designed. the cams would make more of a difference then the headers in the powerband. but if you had the cash you could have a shop make a 4-1 that had the characteristics of a 4-2-1 and 4-1, if you had the cash.

 

4-2-1 obviously...look at any dyno and see where the powerband is on one of these cars

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teg-your-it &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok let me get my question in here...

wouldnt putting a 4-1 on a ls make u want to rev high to where the header is giving you power thus causing u to want to be in the higher rpm range more often and putting more of a strain on the ls motor...being that the ls wasnt really designed to be in the upper rpm range that much..unless built for it but in talking on stock internals or am i wrong?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think of it like this, if you want to be in the high rpms get a vtec, otherwise why bolt something on that isn't efficient for you engine's characteristics. you should always think effienciency, how can i efficiently get the max hp from my engine within the characteristics of its design.

 

Judging by the way the conversation is going, it seems clear that one would accentuate the strenghts of the LS in the low/midrange. the 4-2-1 appears to serve best in this area.

Based on my driving habits, though i must admit how i make it home some days, that i rarely drive past 4500 rpm's to take advantage of the 4-1 manifold benefits.

Does this make logical any sense to anyone?

p.s.
Thanks for everyone's input.

 

 

You have it backwards. Although I still say 4-2-1 is beneficial for both cars with mild bolt on applications. It's when you start pushing more power like crazy na valvetrain or fi that 4-1 with larger collectors really start to shine for either engines.
.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, it's the other way around. 4-1 is better for non-vtec, and 4-2-1 is better for vtec.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntEGNYC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Judging by the way the conversation is going, it seems clear that one would accentuate the strenghts of the LS in the low/midrange. the 4-2-1 appears to serve best in this area.

Based on my driving habits, though i must admit how i make it home some days, that i rarely drive past 4500 rpm's to take advantage of the 4-1 manifold benefits.

Does this make logical any sense to anyone?

so u drive a ls but u have a 4-1 and drive not passing the 4500 rpm range..if the 4-1 is for more top end how are u benifiting from the 4-1 and by not going over 4500 rpm...please advise...thanks..

p.s.
Thanks for everyone's input. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntEGNYC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Judging by the way the conversation is going, it seems clear that one would accentuate the strenghts of the LS in the low/midrange. the 4-2-1 appears to serve best in this area.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's an excellent point. If you want to take it another step further. Think of the application you are building the car for, and where you want the powerband to be strengthened.

For large open tracks with time for the engine to spin up you'd aim to shift your power band toward the higher RPMS. On a very tight track or an autocross, mid-range power and torque are prefered to very peaky top-end.

 

It's best to buy the header that was designed closest to your engine power/torque range. A 4-1 header on a otherwise stock B18A/B may net a few horsepower in the higher rev's but may not gain, or even loss, hp in the engines strongest range. A 4-2-1 header should gain much more overall. Look at it this way. I would rather buy the header the gains the highest power increase percentage for the money, which would be the 4-2-1 for a B18A/B.

 

4-1...vtec engines

4-2-1 non-vtec

you can put the 4-1 on your non-vtec engine but it won't really be worth the waste of your time.

 

ok now what about brands...is the comptech a top notch header for the ls over dc and some other brands...

 

A question for a friend...

He has a b18b mated with an automatic transmission. The chap was told a 4-1 would suit him best for his setup.

Does having an automatic versus a 5 speed alter what Venom has well summarized for this thread?
...Or is the tranmission type irrelevant as the basic principles still apply?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by venom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4-1...vtec engines

4-2-1 non-vtec

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again... depends on your application. I run a 4-2-1 on my GS-R for mid-range gains at expense of a little high-end. Why? Cause for what I use the car for it is the most practical/advantagous setup.

 

a 4-2-1 header would be best with an ls. try not to get one with a collector bigger than 2.25 in( 2inches would be best) unless you are going to turbo or s/c your car. you want the exaust to escape as fast and as effeciently as possible. to big a collecter and the exhaust will "bounce around" on its way out and it won't do you much good b/c you want the exhaust to be pulled out in a nice orderly fashion.

comptech makes a 4-2-1 stepped designed header that would work good for the ls engine. i highly recomend going to team-integra.net and reading the articles. you will learn quite a lot