I had Civic R Intake and JDM ITR exhaust cams in my car but want something much more aggressive! I realize upgrading the valvetrain is a must with this- I want something gnarly but not overboard like Killer cams or Jun III's.

At some point I decided that I wanted my car to not have 12:1 compression and that I like my car to be relatively smoothe and Quiet until VTEC. That is why I decided to go with quality JDM bolt ons and maybe some aggressive cams.

What would your suggestions be? And neccessary valvetrain components?

Thank you in advance for your help

 

since u dont want something to krayzie, skunk stage 1's are a lil more aggresive then the 00+ itr cams (ctr and 00+ itr cams are the same, n all itr exhaust cams r the same). hope that helped you with your desicion.

 

Thanks NA gs-R- probably more aggressive than stage ones though... Not a big fan of Skunk2 either.

Anyone else? What we all drive stock cars here- nobody has suggestions on cams

 

i think toda bs will suit ur needs or skunk stage 2s the need upgraded valve terrain as well

 

jun stg 1, or 2 intake cam / itr exhaust cam.

don't know what your HP goal is.. but 00+ has the best midrange out of all these cams, and w/ REAL bolt on's.. it can make 200whp on a stock itr bottom end which is 10.6 CR (ask around on HT.. some members has it done)

This dyno is just to show you the powerband of the 3 cams in question.. the motor is a is LS/Vtec w/a mild build

Taken form IR:


BLUE LINE; 220.9 HP, 141.7 TQ =JUN 3
RED LINE; 208.3 HP, 141.1 TQ =Type-R
GREEN LINE; 215.2 HP, 135.6 TQ = Toda C

quoting jeff from IB:

RATING: JUN Type 3's 96% Mid range could have been better.
RATING: Toda Spec C's 90% Good Cams, Good peak power.
RATING: Type-R 85% Great cams for the money. The best mid range power in our test, perfect idle, good torque.

Comments: JUN 3 cams, a great choice no matter what kind of head you have. The Toda Spec C's netted the 2nd highest horsepower reading at the wheels of all of the cams we have ever tested. So they are still a very good choice. Type-R cams? Honda knows what they are doing...look at that midrange power!
Jeff



Modified by 00 FBP ItR at 4:29 AM 5/14/2003

 

that's a good example of how good ITR cams really are I mean just look at the chart the itr cams killed the C's all way up to 7800 and wooped on the III's all the way to 7200.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ciRcuitgsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think toda bs will suit ur needs or skunk stage 2s the need upgraded valve terrain as well </TD></TR></TABLE>

That was totally unintelligent, not to mention wtf is a 'valve terrain' ?

at least i have a new addition to my sig now

 

It looks like I would have to upgrade my ECU as well. The dyno shows that most of the power from those cams is at or past our redlines. These are a bit too nasty for my setup now.

What do you guys think about Toda B's? Or JUN II's? Still <U>higher</U> end gains on these setups? Everyone here can probably say that they want more low end and midrage power, I just dont want to have too much where I can't use it.

Thanks for the info porvided and help!

 

Don't forget about Toda A's. AWESOME street cam.

 

lube- How are the A's? Do you have personal experience with them? Do you know their specifications- ie. lift duration?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget about Toda A's. AWESOME street cam.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dont the skunk stage 1's have higher lift and duration then the Toda A's?


anyone have any numbers from the Jun II intake cam ITR exhaust cam combo?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snake01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that's a good example of how good ITR cams really are I mean just look at the chart the itr cams killed the C's all way up to 7800 and wooped on the III's all the way to 7200.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I presume those figures are for a car with standard 10.6:1 compression. Why anyone would put TODA Cs (or the JUNs for that matter) on a standard comp engine is beyond me, they are designed to go with their 12.x:1 pistons as far as I can see.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That was totally unintelligent, not to mention wtf is a 'valve terrain' ?

at least i have a new addition to my sig now</TD></TR></TABLE>

not everyone is at 'your' educational level

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That was totally unintelligent, not to mention wtf is a 'valve terrain' ?

at least i have a new addition to my sig now</TD></TR></TABLE>

roflmao you are crazy

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I presume those figures are for a car with standard 10.6:1 compression. Why anyone would put TODA Cs (or the JUNs for that matter) on a standard comp engine is beyond me, they are designed to go with their 12.x:1 pistons as far as I can see.</TD></TR></TABLE>
then engine tested was an LS/VTEC.
i would assume they would use CTR pistons or something aftermarket.

 

Anyone else have cams they love and would recommend?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonSpecR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone else have cams they love and would recommend?</TD></TR></TABLE>
the only drop in cam that might make you power would be the skunk stage 1.
i think.
someone mentioned toda B's but everyone tells me they love compression.
i'm not sure how toda A's stack up on a mildy modded ITR motor...
i would suggest investing in hondata/cam gears/tuning with the money saved by
not buying aftermarket cams.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ciRcuitgsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think toda bs will suit ur needs or skunk stage 2s the need upgraded valve terrain as well </TD></TR></TABLE>
anyone can tell you the skunk stage 2's are almost an exact copy of jun III's,
which he said was too wild for his plans already.
i would also not recommend an upgraded valve terrain

 

jun3's are not going overboard. they idle like stock and put down the power.

if you're gonna upgrade the ecu, valvetrain, etc, just get the jun3's.

all japanese cams cost around the same price anyways, why not go for the extra lump?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonSpecR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It looks like I would have to upgrade my ECU as well. The dyno shows that most of the power from those cams is at or past our redlines. These are a bit too nasty for my setup now.

What do you guys think about Toda B's? Or JUN II's? Still <U>higher</U> end gains on these setups? Everyone here can probably say that they want more low end and midrage power, I just dont want to have too much where I can't use it.
Thanks for the info porvided and help! </TD></TR></TABLE>
oh yah, one set of cams tested on that dyno graph are the stock Type R cams...
and look..they KILL both the toda C's and Jun 3's all the way up to 7K.
you said you want usable power.
as i stated before..i would invest in cam gears/tuning/hondata...
you also could use your stock itr valvetrain. saved some money there.
in the end..it's all up to you though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EVOL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
then engine tested was an LS/VTEC.
i would assume they would use CTR pistons or something aftermarket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I had a look just says aftermarket, this could be any CR really, I would be interested in what the CR actually was.
http://www.importreview.com/re....html

 

Ever thought about Jun Stage II cams, less agressive then the Jun III, and comparable or maybe even better then Toda Spec A's

 

Use TODA and SPOONbefore. Haven't try any other else.
SPOON one suck big time
TODA is much much better
recommand it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICHJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I had a look just says aftermarket, this could be any CR really, I would be interested in what the CR actually was.
http://www.importreview.com/re....html</TD></TR></TABLE>

they ran it off pump gas for a couple runs.. it can't be any higher than 12:1...

i would guess around 11.5:1.. since they're still running off the stock ecu...

 

Toda A, Spoon Sports, and Skunk2 stg1 have nearly identical profiles (slightly more aggressive than CTR/ITRs), and Skunk2 stg1s are le$$. they are all pretty easy with which to tune good idle and hp/tq throughout a broad pwr band. my only gripe with the Skunks, and most domestic cams, is that Crower pretty much monopolizes the domestic market on cam blanks (made in Turkey), so (i believe that) Skunk2 uses them, and while i seldomly hear of problems with Skunk2 cams (breakage), i often hear of breakage with Crower cams. note, this may be due to improper installation/insufficient valvetrain, as was an issue with people running Jun 3s with Jun's own (shitty) valvetrain, which brings me to 'wilder' cams.

Skunk2 stg2s are admittedly (by the mfg) Jun3 copies, which are relatively easy to tune for a good idle and gains over the CTRs everywhere (not to mention significantly cheaper than Juns), even on stock compression. Tom at PaynTech (a good tuner) dyno tuned ~175whp with them on a usdm b16a with stock compression (10.2:1), and merely a JDM ITR 4-1 header, ITR intake manifold, catback ex, and aftermarket intake arm/filter using Hondata; he said that they beat the CTR cams everywhere in hp and tq. thus, if you plan to get Jun cams over Skunk2s, i'd recommend getting the Jun stage 3s over the Jun stg1,2s, though some (Mike K) have had good results (midrange) with the Jun 2 intake cam and the ITR exhaust cam.

Jun has a new stg 4 cam, which has slightly bigger primary/secondary ('non-VTEC') lobes, but which should still be able to idle well and pass emissions (with proper tuning, of course), and which should also be easier with which to tune out the characteristic 'dip' in the graph during the transition from the low to high lobes. NA engine configurations with larger bores/displacements also seem to make significantly better low/midrange with larger primary/secondary 'non'-VTEC cam profiles (with proper manifolding), likely due to their improved breathing; higher static compression helps, too, especially on stock-bore set-ups.

Toda B/C spec cams are pretty aggressive due to their relatively severe ramp angles, and on all of the lobes (which also have relatively high lifts, though the center/tertiary 'VTEC' lobes have notably less duration than those of the Jun 2/3s). SGT and other good tuners have made great power (notably midrange) with these (as well as have them idle well), though they do stress/wear the valvetrain significantly moreso than other cams, and have been known not only to be trickier for novices to tune (especially idle), but on smaller bore engines, they seem to demand higher compression to make good power. they are high quality cams, and are the only ones, to my knowledge, in which their design incorporates different lobes for cyl #3 (phasing?) to compensate for its placement in the (1,3,4,2...) cylinder firing order (#3 runs hotter, since it's always between cyls 2,4 firing).

with any cams wilder than stock, i'd recommend upgrading the valvetrain, at least to stiffer springs (stock ITR Intake outers w/Portflow inners on the intake and exhaust sides weems to work well). this at least offers more (however limited) protection in case you mis-shift and/or 'bounce off of' the rev limiter.

good tuning is also imperative. Hondata is good, and if Uberteg still offers his setup (do a search), it seems like a great value. a v-afc might suffice, though you can't change the ignition timing, as with the others, so their use is more limited.

at any rate, for "no-brainer" power at a reasonable price, i'd say run ~11-12:1 compression (you can use CTR pistons), Skunk2 stg 1 or 2 cams, a JDM 4-1 header, ITR/Skunk2 IM, 62mm TB, and Hondata. you should hit ~200 whp, and have a fast, reliable setup as long as you run at least 91 octane fuel. it will idle well, should pass emissions (with a cat, of course, and possibly tuning out some cam-overlap w/adj. cam gears), and run well.