It's a long story, but here are the facts:

I have 2 itr trannies.

#1 has 15k miles on it. PERFECT. It also has an ATS 4.9 final gear in it.

#2 has 35k miles on it. No grinds. Bone stock as it came from the factory.

Now I have one turbo project I think I'll use the stock tranny for since b00st doesn't really need any upgrades.....

The other tranny, I think I want to add the ATS 3,4,5 gearset... (maybe the 1st gear too...) Yes, I know this tranny will top out at ~120, but it'll be for a ~200whp itr powered hatch, and should be good for autox/ road racing.....

Now here's the question: should I just sell the stock itr tranny and take the $ and get say a b16 or gsr tranny with grinds on it? I could buy a quaife lsd (or something else), since I'll be basically replacing the final gear, 1, 3, 4, 5 gears, etc..... Would this be a more financially viable option? What's the advantage or disadvantage of keeping the itr tranny and essentially replacing all of the gears?

I mean, I've heard of itr having better/ more syncros than other b-series trannies, but how true is that? Details please!

Talk #'s here as well if it will help the discussion.

Thanks.

 

If you're making 200whp in a gutted EF hatch, you dont want to limit yourself to 120mph with gearing. You'll run out of it on a road course pretty frequently. IMHO.

 

Ken,

No offense, but just drive the car and hone your driving skills.

You'll have a ton of fun and you can always build the crazy tranny later.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken,
No offense, but just drive the car and hone your driving skills.
You'll have a ton of fun and you can always build the crazy tranny later.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what he said

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The other tranny, I think I want to add the ATS 3,4,5 gearset... (maybe the 1st gear too...) Yes, I know this tranny will top out at ~120, but it'll be for a ~200whp itr powered hatch, and should be good for autox/ road racing.....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

where'd you get the idea that the ATS gearset will make you top out at 120mph?

I have the ATS 3-4-5 gearset with a stock 4.4FD, and i can easily go over 230kph, rougly 144mph

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spikey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

where'd you get the idea that the ATS gearset will make you top out at 120mph?

I have the ATS 3-4-5 gearset with a stock 4.4FD, and i can easily go over 230kph, rougly 144mph</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats nice.

but he wanted to slap in an ATS FD also.

 

I wouldn't do both close gear and final gear.

just do one or the other.

 

Hasn't there been enough discussion of the ATS gearset over time to make it clear that it's NOT a useful road race gear set.

WHY would you want a box with wider spacing between 4th and 5th?

Neither the ATS set or the Kaaz sets are for Road Racing - they are for Drag Racing.

You'd be better off using a GSR box's 3,4,5 with the most suitable available final drive ratio. It's got closer spacing than the ITR box - though not enough to get a hard on for.

Scott, who chose to nuke the problem with custom gears from Houseman...

 

ken, have you driven the car with the ats fd in it yet. if not, you may be satified with just that. rstor attended many track events with an ats 4.9 fd and he really liked it.

 

rode in a car with the ats 3,4,5 and it was an itr tranny...topped out at 115 and while it was fun it really cut the cars potential down and yes you will run out of top end on a road course or an HPDE event that has a long straight

 

the money you spend in the gears can certainly be put in better places besides the ats gear set. why dont you aim for 220-235whp?

I my ats fd. But lumpier cams, better suspension, better tires are all probably worth more (time savings) than the ats gear set

if you want bling go with something similar to scotts or a sequantial tranny

Im curious to have rodney chime in and give his 2 cents

 

dude, you are WAY too rich

 

R00cker - what you should really do is trade me your stock tranny for my LS tranny.

 

I would keep the 4.9 with the current gearing. I think that just the addition of the larger final drive brings everything close enough together.

If you are building an FI car, I also recommend getting a tranny with longer gears so you can maximize your time in your powerband. Since you will have more TQ I think that having longer gears is more beneficial and easier to drive than shorter ones.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken,

No offense, but just drive the car and hone your driving skills.

You'll have a ton of fun and you can always build the crazy tranny later.</TD></TR></TABLE>

bwahah.. Reid took his happy pill today.

 

Seriously, if you are going to boost you might want to think about Clayton's tranny.

And a 200whp hatch that only goes 120mph isn't going to be any fun.

 

Ok, let me clarify for those who missed something:

I have a stock itr tranny, and a 2nd itr tranny whose only upgrade is the ATS 4.9 final gear.

YES I HAVE DRIVEN ON IT. YES I KNOW WHAT IT DOES. NO, IT DOESN'T BRING ANY OF THE GEARS CLOSER TOGETHER. It does accelerate ~10% better in every gear. To me, it doesn't mask the problem of rpm drop from 3-4 and 4-5 shift... 5th gear in the itr is too far apart from 4th imho, and the same goes for 3rd to 4th shift... If there were a closer gearset for 3-4-5, I have decided I want that..... I think it'd be "neato" to try out... for an allmotor car. Getting a shorter 3rd gear would be a nice bonus.

Now I appreciate everyone's scepticism. I remember when only a very few people had even any knowledge of the 4.9 gear, and how many told me that it would be too crazy for the street or for a car making ~200whp. To me it is a MILD upgrade. It isn't *THAT* crazy. Yes I've driven it on one track - beaver run/ expo3, and it was a mixed bag. I was actually too sissy to keep the pedal down all the way through the straights..... :O:O But I never had to dip into 2nd gear... EVER.

I'm also the type to want to try different things. (Remember the spec b's and spec c's on stock compression? Turbo + spec a's, etc? ) Things that haven't been tried before, or little known of... I know of nobody who has tried the 3,4,5 gearset AND the 4.9 final gear. I know of only a handful of people using the 4.9 (myself included), and even fewer using the 3,4,5 gearset. I do have it from a very reputable source who has tried either/ or at various times and on various courses in the NE that the 3,4,5 gearset is comparable to the 4.9 for many tracks (i.e. similar times) - and it's less expensive so that's why to choose it..... BUT, I already have that and am interested in what would happen with BOTH.

Here's an excerpt from http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-p...shtml

************************
Type R U.S. spec & Civic Si with ATS 4.929 & ATS Close 3rd, 4th, 5th
RPM Gear Final Km/h Mile/h @Shift up
RPM goes to
1st 8,000 3.2310 4.9290 55.36 34.41 5200
2nd 8,000 2.1050 4.9290 84.98 52.82 6200
3rd 8,000 1.6520 4.9290 108.28 67.30 6300
4th 8,000 1.3080 4.9290 136.76 85.00 6300
5th 8,000 1.0330 4.9290 173.17 107.62
***********************************

Now what you have to remember is that the itr has a rev limit of 8600 stock. I intend to rev to ~9k, so that'll skew the above figures a bit, but you get the idea.....

Now if you plug in the gear ratios to http://www.autocrossing.com/cgi-bin/gearcalc.cgi you get the following for ATS 4.9 final gear, ATS 1,3,4,5 gear set, stock wheel and tire size, stock rev limiter (8600):


*********************************
Base transmission selected: 94-01 US B16A/ITR
1st gear 3.077
2nd gear 2.105
3rd gear 1.652
4th gear 1.308
5th gear 1.033
6th gear
Final drive 4.929
Tire diameter in inches 23.4
Maximum engine speed (RPM) 8600


Gear ShiftRPM Speed @ 8600 RPM
1st N/A 39.5
2nd 5883 57.7
3rd 6749 73.5
4th 6809 92.9
5th 6792 117.6
RPM in top gear at 70mph: 5120
*********************************


And if you raise the rev limiter to 9k with that same setup, you get this:

*******************************
Gear ShiftRPM Speed @ 9000 RPM
1st N/A 41.3
2nd 6157 60.4
3rd 7063 76.9
4th 7126 97.2
5th 7108 123.0
RPM in top gear at 70mph: 5120
*****************************


For reference, here is the stock itr tranny:

*****************************
1st gear 3.230
2nd gear 2.105
3rd gear 1.458
4th gear 1.107
5th gear 0.848
6th gear
Final drive 4.4
Tire diameter in inches 23.4
Maximum engine speed (RPM) 8600

Gear ShiftRPM Speed @ 8600 RPM
1st N/A 42.1
2nd 5605 64.6
3rd 5957 93.3
4th 6530 122.9
5th 6588 160.4
RPM in top gear at 70mph: 3752
****************************



Scott, I didn't understand your post..... Apparently, I missed the discussions of the 3,4,5 gearset... links please?
While I respect your opinion, I have to ask why you say the gsr tranny has a closer 3,4,5? it DOES from 3-4 if I'm not mistaken.... by 16 HUNDREDTHS an rpm... but loses more rpms than the itr tranny from 4-5 shift.....

Also, the ATS 3,4,5 does not have wider spacing, it has CLOSER spacing.....

Please clarify, I suppose I could have misunderstood something.

Everyone else, I appreciate your concerns.

Please everyone keep to the topic at hand. Pro's? Con's? What's the best way to go about getting this gearset? Keep the itr tranny and swap out all the gears, or get a broken tranny and put the goodies in that I want?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was actually too sissy to keep the pedal down all the way through the straights.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ATS gearset will really help with this.

 

Forget ATS. Get custom gearset from QUAIFE.

Regarding synchros, they the same between late model B16A, and all b18c trannies.
LS probablysame as well.

 

I saw 120+mph on the JDM FD at the Expo. From the top of the hill all the way to the hairpin is full throttle. Fix the driver before you screw with the tranny.

Warren

 

Kenny, I have to agree with Reid (edit - and ****) here.

This car will be entirely useless if you lack the skill to drive it.

If you had drag-only intentions, I'd say go for it, but you are clearly interested in road racing and autocross.

When working on the driver, you want to worry about the car as little as possible, and you want it to be as friendly to you as possible. I bet you would get a lot more satisfaction at being able to drive the **** out of a stock ITR than just having the coolest car at the track.

 

if you looking for a tranny to rebuild Ken you could buy mine
here is what happened to it

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=501053


i just haven't taken it out yet

 

For those of you insisting that ATS 3-4-5 gears will top out at 120mph, please post the setup of the car, the tranny, the engine, the rpm limit and the wheel/tire size.

Myself, I have a B18C-R with ITR tranny and ATS 3-4-5 gearset and stock 4.4FD, rev limit is 9100rpm and wheel/tire is 195/55/15.

And I am telling you for a fact that I can reach 230kph (144mph) and still climbing at between 8500-8800rpm.

Many of the A&J shop cars and customer cars use the ATS gearset. I/we know what we're talking about with respect to the gears. Unless your rev limit is 7000rpm, how can you be topping out at 120mph (192kph)!

The reaction here to the gearset is similar to the reaction to the ATS 4.9FD when it came out. A lot of misinformation and misunderstanding. I don't mean this offensively, but if you don't have experience with it, don't bash it!

 

I say save your money and spend it on things that will improve traction more like a Quaife or ATS LSD, traction bars and slicks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spikey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For those of you insisting that ATS 3-4-5 gears will top out at 120mph, please post the setup of the car, the tranny, the engine, the rpm limit and the wheel/tire size.

Myself, I have a B18C-R with ITR tranny and ATS 3-4-5 gearset and stock 4.4FD, rev limit is 9100rpm and wheel/tire is 195/55/15.

And I am telling you for a fact that I can reach 230kph (144mph) and still climbing at between 8500-8800rpm.

Many of the A&J shop cars and customer cars use the ATS gearset. I/we know what we're talking about with respect to the gears. Unless your rev limit is 7000rpm, how can you be topping out at 120mph (192kph)!

The reaction here to the gearset is similar to the reaction to the ATS 4.9FD when it came out. A lot of misinformation and misunderstanding. I don't mean this offensively, but if you don't have experience with it, don't bash it! </TD></TR></TABLE>

People are referring to the ATS gearset AND the ATS final drive, when used in conjunction with each other.