Soooo...I'm bored of waiting for Skunk2, so I am going to produce my own H22a manifold in a composite material. So engineers or whatever let's do some brainstorming.

Here are some pics of the ENDYN B-series CF intake manifold:








Now I plan to copy the OEM Euro-R manifold, and just port it and such...but My main question is how to attach the metal flanges to the composite material? I won't be using CF...but this wicked composite from another industry. Now what can we do to secure this **** together?

The only Idea I have so far is the build on a sort of re-bar mesh on the flange, that the composite material surrounds like is done in concrete forming....

Please any ideas would be great.

 

back up to the top for this old one.

I to am wondering about how to get the metal pieces to bond to the composite material. I'm looking at it for different applications and I will be using carbon fiber, there isn't much out on the net about CF fabrication.

satan_srv... you ever get any info on this or start doing anything with it?

 

in general the flange or bolts are specially manufactured with parts that you don't see to better bond to whatever the given material...

For cf they may have a flatened area which you could lay cf around in order to bond it to the part.

for other materials it's probobly similar IE... you make the bolt or flange with the backside designed to bond well to the part. If it's a vacum molded heat cured composite then you'd place it in the mold and the material would bond to it. If it's layed in place like cf or fiberglass then you'd just weave around it till it was sufficiently bonded to the part.

Eitherway the chances of you producing a usable much less good product are 1 in a billion... good luck and all but your talking about a BIG project... endyne has been DESIGNING that manifold for how long now... with out ever releasing a marketable product.

also as far a cf is concerned it's not ideal at all for use in a high temp environment... the pieces which are made for high temp areas are specially designed and researched to be able to survive in those conditions.

The reason there are not many cf resources on the net is that the people doing it are developing techniques as we speak discovering new ways of using it to get different benifits... so they're not sharing their experience as it is VERY valuable.

 

wow, that mani is the most beatiful thing ive ever seen.

i wouldt try it though, think of how much physics and flow and volume and such plans have to be made for intake manifolds...plus your not even casting it and using an unnormal material, and youd probly screw it up. try it though DIY **** is the best, cause U made it

 

excelent! thanks for the info NonovUrbizniz!

 

The epoxy composition will determine the bonding to aluminum due heat expansion. The epoxy used around the flanges may need to be of a different composition than used for just the CF layer bonding. You're going to have to make some phone calls. I doubt anyone here can be that specific.

*edit*
Gotta love that CLEAN workshop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also as far a cf is concerned it's not ideal at all for use in a high temp environment... the pieces which are made for high temp areas are specially designed and researched to be able to survive in those conditions.
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What does ENDYNE pitch as the big advantage to the CF manifold? Formula 1 cars use composites for hi temp applications, even headers, but it's purely a weight issue. I can't think of any other advantage you'd get over aluminum, all other things constant. And honestly, we're not talking about a hood here. What's the weight difference, 2 lbs?

If you're in it for the sheer challenge satan_srv, more power to ya! Wish I could help. If you're looking to build your own performance part, I'd say composites are not a path you want to go down for this application.

 

i work on aircrafts, and you can use any metal to attach, jsut go with aluminum,

just make the basic shape, and place the metal, and lay a few layer over top

the best way is for the the whole thing is make 2 halves and then attach them together that way you can shape the runner however you want, if your worried about heat, lay some ceramic on the inside that'll soak up some heat

 

Something a little harsh I'm afraid...

You're contemplating something huge, requiring enormous resources, this just isn't doable (the *right* way) by one person unless you're well funded ($$$$$$$)

Have you performed airflow studies to find the best interior shape? Do you own a flow bench? Have you looked into vibration and heat analysis of carbon fiber? If your analysis shows some other material is better, would you use it if it doesn't have the "look" of cf... or are you so in love with cf you'll use it no matter what?

You're thinking about this for all the wrong reasons. People who do this for real do it to win races. What's your reason - looks? How about just covering your existing aluminum intake with one layer of cf? There you go.

 

that mani is nice as hell

 

hmm so people actually responded to this!

No I am not looking into this for the wrong reasons. The reason was I want to sell a better H22a manifold, and I have access to composite materials and manufacturing.

I thought it would be cheaper to do than just aluminum, perhaps I am wrong. It looks like too much of a pain in the *** to even attempt at this point.

 

sorry the plan was to work from an Accord Euro-R H22a manifold modified. I'm not trying to make the best manifold in the world, I want to make one that has good gains and can be supplied to the market soon.

What about plastic based composites? I don't think they are strong enough though...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No I am not looking into this for the wrong reasons. The reason was I want to sell a better H22a manifold, and I have access to composite materials and manufacturing. I thought it would be cheaper to do than just aluminum, perhaps I am wrong. It looks like too much of a pain in the *** to even attempt at this point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry for being an *** yesterday with my rant. Yes it is a pain to do in composite and it's way, way, more expensive than welding together an aluminum one. The big unknown is how do you design the thing so it flows better than someone else's, never mind what it's made out of. If someone gave you a free cf unit, just the fact that it's cf means nothing. You may go much slower with it because the designer was going for looks and never did any flow developement. It's all in the flow....