For all those who fear running the stock valve train beyond the factory limits... check this out. I was doing this all day long both Saturday and Sunday. 1L of oil later and the engine still purrs like a kitten...

I borrowed the ECU from a friend for the expo and now I’m hooked of course my wife is pregnant so I’ll have to hold off my lust for this piece for a little while…

Enjoy!

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....0MQ==

 

Wow the car sounds nice past 9k RPMS. Obviously it held up for the Expo but will it hold up over time say another 5 track events with constant 9500 RPM shifting?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EleanoR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow the car sounds nice past 9k RPMS. Obviously it held up for the Expo but will it hold up over time say another 5 track events with constant 9500 RPM shifting?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, that'd be more of my concern..

how many miles on your R, out of curiosity?

 

does it still make power up there or does it just sound pretty? just curious.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JaeOne3345 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does it still make power up there or does it just sound pretty?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Still making power... and landing into 4th at 7000+RPM left me well in the power band.

My primary concern about running the engine at that speed would be valve float, which obviously does not happen with the stock setup at these engine speeds.

My secondary concern would be failure of spring retainers which is a concern on any engine spinning that fast (regardless of the retainer material). I plan on opening up the motor next fall and replacing all the valve train parts as a standard maintenance overhaul for an engine that sees this kind of work.

I am not concerned about the springs as I have heard from credible sources that they don't break if they are not compressed or expanded beyond their ratings which is obviously not happening here.

I would not expect any engine to last forever when being pushed so hard... maintenance is the key!

 

I ran my Mugen ECU on the stock valvetrain from 85K-125K miles, and everything was fine.
Might want to use and adj. FPR and check the wideband thought for the long run.

 

Holy **** 1L of oil, that's nuts

I'm suprised the mugen ECU really made that much of a difference, I've always wondered how EPGONZALEZ is pushing so many WHP with just Mugen parts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I ran my Mugen ECU on the stock valvetrain from 85K-125K miles, and everything was fine.
Might want to use and adj. FPR and check the wideband thought for the long run. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It was first hand experiences like this that made me feel quite comfortable doing that all weekend long... Unfortunately I have given the ECU back to my freind...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by io_burn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holy **** 1L of oil, that's nuts </TD></TR></TABLE>

1L of oil after 2 hours of 7000-9000RPM WOT driving is NOTHING! I was VERY pleased to have consumed so little...

 

George's ITR saw 9k a few times that weekend as well, but we are using a hondata not the Mugen..

Stock valve train. She's still ticking..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanSprinkel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> She's still ticking.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Uhmm....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BABY NSX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Still making power... and landing into 4th at 7000+RPM left me well in the power band.

My primary concern about running the engine at that speed would be valve float, which obviously does not happen with the stock setup at these engine speeds.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to see a dyno of this. I would without a doubt say that the engine is losing power above 8500 rpms and I bet torque falls off even faster. Seems pointless to me to shift a stock valvetrain at 9500k. And landing at 7000 rpm is nice but shifting at 8600 or so and landing at 5900 or so is still in the powerband and you still have some nice torque. Take a look at George Knighton's dyno graph on this page. The engine has puked out at 8500 rpm and that's with hondata tuning and a ported head to boot. The stock cams just don't make power up there.

And why wouldn't you have valve float at 9500 rpm? Seems like it's past the capabilities of the valve springs to me. Could be wrong there but I bet valve float is beginning at that high of an rpm.

Not trying to bash you or come across as an *** I just have some disbelief of some things that you said. Just my .02

s

 

if you are running stock cams i have to agree you reving that high is doing more harm than good

 

While I go search for some info to sopport my position remember that the Tach is way off up there, I'm actually shifting between 9000-9100RPM.

While I haven't gone into any engine mods yet, my bolt-ons are not cheap. I don't have any dyno plots to verify any claims I might make, but I would bet that my HP peak occurs well above 8000RPM which would clearly justify shifting at 9000RPM. From experince I can say that the engine is pulling very hard right up to the 9100RPM fuel cut-off.

 

ohhhhh. No here we go again.... the old "The car does not make HP gains from 8100- 9 K argument again"....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BABY NSX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">remember that the Tach is way off up there, I'm actually shifting between 9000-9100RPM.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can anyone else verify this? I just had a hondata chip installed with a 8500 red line but while autocrossing the car I got it past 8750 according to the tach. I would like to hit the rev limiter to know it's there and working but I don't want to risk my engine to find out. Hondata made this same claim about the tach being off but I still don't fully believe it.

 

Stock tach's do have attendancy to be off

 

I bounce off the rev limiter at an indicated 8800-8900. It's hard to tell... I don't get to 9, but get more than halfway between 8500 and 9000. This is with a stock ecu.

If the rev limit is 8600... and i'm 200-300 rpm's off: that's ROUGHLY 2.3 - 3.5% off. That's for my tach, who knows if they are all similar.

 

LAst year I was running a Mugen ECU on my stock ITR and reved it up to 9.500 RPM , no problem only I was burning 1Liter oil per hour! Now I added a JG Edlebrock intake malifold and a 70mm STR T/B and a mugen cil head gasket and SKUNK2 stage II cams and an oil cooler . Still using the MUGEN ECU , the car 's VTEC point was too low now , so I added the VAFC and set the VTEC at 5.400 RPM. Now the VTEC transission is perfect . With the stock cams the car was reving also up to 9.500 RPM , but from 8.500 to 9.500 the was no extra power , now with the SK2 cams , the power keeps on comming up to 9.500 RPM. The oil cooler didn't help on the oilconsumption , still 1 Liter per hour . Now I installed the ENDYNE oil breather kit ( http://www.theoldone.com ) and this realy works , I am only burning a half liter per 5 hours !!! So this means that at this hi RPM's the PCV is returning to much pressure containing oil to the intake manifold . This oil breather kit gives me a safer feeling racing my car !!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geratol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Can anyone else verify this? I just had a hondata chip installed with a 8500 red line but while autocrossing the car I got it past 8750 according to the tach. I would like to hit the rev limiter to know it's there and working but I don't want to risk my engine to find out. Hondata made this same claim about the tach being off but I still don't fully believe it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Chris's car had a tach that was very far from accurate, he was shifting at an indicated 9,000rpm on the stock ECU. For some reason my tach is very accurate, shift light comes on exactly where it's supposed to. If you know someone that has a shift light borrow it and see where it comes on(or video it to be safer).

Austin

 

I would agree the car does pull hard (I have the ECU).....but not sure how much power there is up top. I dont think the power drops off that bad. I have a dyno somewhere from THOMAS @ Area 51. His mods are only intake and exhaust. No crazy hp numbers but nice vtec x-over gains.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BABY NSX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">While I go search for some info to sopport my position remember that the Tach is way off up there, I'm actually shifting between 9000-9100RPM.

While I haven't gone into any engine mods yet, my bolt-ons are not cheap. I don't have any dyno plots to verify any claims I might make, but I would bet that my HP peak occurs well above 8000RPM which would clearly justify shifting at 9000RPM. From experince I can say that the engine is pulling very hard right up to the 9100RPM fuel cut-off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahhhh yes, a 9000 rpm stock tach indicated shift i could understand, I could see how that would be 8500-8600 rpm. That makes sense. My tach is way off at the upper rpm, 8600 or so is tach indiacted and my fuel cut is set to 8300. I can easily believe the tach is way off. My bad there.

Well, i would believe the car is still pulling at an ACTUAL 8000 rpm I bet it falls off very quick after that, regardless of your bolt-ons. Stock cams just don't make power past 8300 or so. Maybe if you had a bigger IM and TB you might get a few hundred rpm extra but the cams will be your limiting factor. Take a look at George Knighton's plot. He doesn't have any cheap bolt-ons either and he's no where near pulling to an ACTUAL 9100 rpm and I doubt you would be either. Just my .02. If you've got the data to prove me wrong I won't get into a pissing contest with you, I can admit I'm wrong. I'd like to see some hard data as I think it would be very impressive for stock cams to make power at 9k.

s

 

Unfortunately I don't have any hard numbers with my setup and can only go on what I've seen posted here and what my butt tells me. I can't go with anymore then that. I'll remedy this soon. Still, I am more then satisfied that my shifting points optimized my speed and lowered my lap times (as slow as they were ).

I will concede that the ECU did give me quite a bit more power down low (over stock ECU) which could have allowed me too shift sooner; however, I know that the car went quickest when I let the engine spin higher. Ultimately that is what’s important.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BABY NSX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unfortunately I don't have any hard numbers with my setup and can only go on what I've seen posted here and what my butt tells me. I can't go with anymore then that. I'll remedy this soon. Still, I am more then satisfied that my shifting points optimized my speed and lowered my lap times (as slow as they were ).

I will concede that the ECU did give me quite a bit more power down low (over stock ECU) which could have allowed me too shift sooner; however, I know that the car went quickest when I let the engine spin higher. Ultimately that is what’s important.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Were you taking lap times at expo?

If not, what feels faster is often slower..... even more so for autocross.

Did you notice a marked increase in the speeds as you enter the braking zones for 10 and 1? Were you consistent enough to make rasing your shifting point the only variable?

I had my students try both 2nd and 3rd gear in T10... 2nd 'felt' faster (mAd vTeC) but as the students learned to be smooth and carry more speed i think 3rd was ultimately the faster gear.

Just trying to qualify your statements....

RJ

 

i have a dyno of my stock R w/30,000miles with mugen ECU. I dyno'd once with it and once without it. Let me see if I can find it on my home computer later. Or if anyone might have it saved feel free to post it. The Mugen ECU did make the power come on earlier which would be great on a road course. But peak hp didn't go up more than 1hp.

tj