Well, I took the EP3 to it's first autox event. Here is my setup:

STS Trim.

-16x7.5" SSR Wheels
-215/45/16 Falken Azenis
-Tein Type Flex Suspension 8ft/10r springs
-19mm RSX-S Swaybar
-Neuspeed 4-point Front Upper stress bar
-lowered about 3" overall.
-Axxis Ultimates in the front, stock pads rear.

-AEM intake
-2.25" B-pipe without resonator and stock muffler
-DC Sports SS Header
-Hondata Flash

First, this car has some torque. Very good torque. Enough to fry the inside tire at will (even in a straight line). The car handled pretty good--enough to impress me and this is coming from a guy that autox's an ITR with very trick suspension on a national level.

The struts have a different feeling than the double-wishbone that I am use to, but I got use to it. Honda's implementation works good. I've driven strut cars before and hated it, but I didn't hate this one. Yes, I could tell the car had struts, but the average driver would have had no idea.

The EPS is kinda weird, but by the end of the day I had adapted to it. I did not experience anything negative, though. It was just a little different at race speeds than the 'normal' belt-driven Honda p/s setup.

The car, with different pads in the front, stops great. The ABS is not as good as the ABS in my ITR, but it is better than the ABS I had in my 97 GSR. I have no complaints about the brakes on the EP3, and for autox more are certainly not needed as long as you do different pads al around and get the oem fluid out of there.

The 7800rpm redline from the Hondata makes all of the difference in the world on an autox course. Those extra rpms in second gear are well worth the price of the flash, and the throttle response is vastly improved.

Improvements? Well, if you *seriously* want to autox this car, it needs more springrate. Probably 10ft/16 rear would work well. Also, the JDM 22mm rear bar is probably needed. The front sway I am still up in the air about. I was going to try the 23mm RSX bar, but if the rest of the suspension is done correctly, it may not be such a huge deal. Although, with stiffer springs in the front, less of a front bar would not be a bad thing.

When reflecting on the Grassroots motorsports EP3 they did, I still think the fault was the GC coilovers and the Koni shocks. With the Tein Type Flex, I am able to retain full shock travel while being lowered quite a bit. With their setup, they could not. They were forced to run a taller rideheight or more springrate to keep the car off of the stops. With the Type Flex, or some of the other adjustable shock body coilovers coming out, this problem is all but eliminated.

See the GRM Si here: http://www.grassrootsmotorspor....html

Even though it was a test and tune and no class times were being officially kept, the car was very competitive with some top drivers in good cars. I would not be afraid to take the car to a Divisional or even a National Tour autox event, because it would not embarass itself (especially if I took the time to put the springrates and alignment settings where they needed to be).

 

Wow, that was a great writeup!

I'm running STS, too, with 15" Konig Heliums, 205/50 Azenis, and I've ordered a CTR rear bar. So far, its going good, but I'm not as experienced (my first season). I'm also putting together my own "short-ram-in-a-box" intake project.

My questions for you are:
1. )Do you think the lower load rating of the Azenis tires will ever be an issue? (mine say 85V, and stock is 88)

2.) I've thought about Hawk Brake pads, as I've heard good things about them, what about you? Are the Axxis the best bet, and is just the front needed?

3.) Why replace the stock brake fluid, and with what?

Any info you can provide is much appreciated, as I'm still learning, and I dont want to waste my $$ or hurt my car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, that was a great writeup!

I'm running STS, too, with 15" Konig Heliums, 205/50 Azenis, and I've ordered a CTR rear bar. So far, its going good, but I'm not as experienced (my first season). I'm also putting together my own "short-ram-in-a-box" intake project.

My questions for you are:
1. )Do you think the lower load rating of the Azenis tires will ever be an issue? (mine say 85V, and stock is 88)

2.) I've thought about Hawk Brake pads, as I've heard good things about them, what about you? Are the Axxis the best bet, and is just the front needed?

3.) Why replace the stock brake fluid, and with what?

Any info you can provide is much appreciated, as I'm still learning, and I dont want to waste my $$ or hurt my car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

1) The only issue is increased traction Seriously though, do a search for Azenis and you'll see a ton of topics on them. The short version: Not good in large amounts of standing water, only last about 10K miles and have some roadnoise. Traction is awesome for a street tire though.

2) I personally like the Axxis Ultimate pads. That's personal preference though. I have heard good things about some Hawk pads too. I just did the fronts because that's all the place had in stock at the time. The fronts are the most important though as most of the braking happens up there. Later on I will do rears.

3) Stock brake fluid has a low boiling point. I like the Castrol Dot4 (non-syn) fluid.

 

Thanks for the quick reply!

Whenever you can, keep us posted with progress and photos!

Here's a DIY site I'm starting to build: http://www.dmcknight.net/ep3hack

 

Good to see that you had better luck auto-xing the EP3 than GRM. I do have some questions though:

1. Are you running a camber kit or does the Type Flex allow you to adjust camber??

2. You've always referred to the Hondata flash having a 7800 rev limit. I've read everywhere that it is 7700...Is it really 7800? Not that it matters much, but was just curious.

 

Great review Todd00. Really gets my hopes up with this car.

 

The Type Flex allows me to adjust camber with the built-in front camber plates.

My fault about the flash redline. I just have 7800 stuck in my head for some reason. It is 7700 as Hondata advertises.

 

Uhhh, Im sold on the Type Flex now. (looks for credit card) :-D

Our auto-x club here in Austin has lots of RSX's and one other EP3 besides me. He has 205/50/15 Azenis on enkie wheels, Progress rear sway/tie combo, thinner RSX front sway, and some camber adjustments on stock springs/dampers...and AEM CAI.

He's a very good driver and he always gets first or second place in STS, sometimes overall pax, too. As far as I'm concerned, aint nothing wrong with the EP3 for auto-x.

 

Im running STS, ive done 2 seperate events... tons of fun, my car is holding its own -- 12th outta 89 cars (novice group) --

Im running 225/50/16 Falken ZIEX512s and Eibach Springs --- Factory sways still -- and an ebay strut bar -- feels like I need a tie bar/sway bar combo and some good shocks soon.

 

Todd :
For all around driving would u go with 16'' or 17''? I cant decide. What set up handles better /accels / brakes better?
IMO 17's look better since my car looks so big bootied it needs bigger rims than traditional civics. So 15's is out of the question (looks like a 300 lb lady in size 6 shoes) (shudders)

Any input is much appreciated.

 

IMO:

15/16" = Performance

17" + = Bling, unless you can afford a nice 17" forged wheel. Anything 17" cast is just too heavy.

I personally don't like the way Hondas feel with too large (diameter) or heavy of a wheel. You need to determine if you want looks or performance. I think 16" is a good medium between the two, and I couldn't afford a 17" forged wheel.

 

I would like to go the 17's route but IMO I can get a better performance tire from a 15" size. I currently run a 205-55-15 Bridgestone GIII from Japan. It looks to be like a Potenza S-03. The tire works well on dry and wet pavement.

Todd00, you run the Flex?? Did you have to modify it to fit your EP3??

 

Tein makes a flex kit specifically for the EP3. No modification needed. While not a pure race suspension, it is very nice for a daily driver and does well for autox and HPDE. I don't want the **** beat out of me on my commute to work, which is the primary goal of this car.

 

Im looking at the upcoming BASIC. It looks like it has half the rate adjustment range, but more drop range than the FLEX. Im not really interested in the EDFC, so incompatibility is not an issue.

What I cant figure out is how does the adjustment work? do you adjust hight, damper bound, damper rebound, camber... what else is there? Is the damper bound adjustment what they mean when they say the spring rate is adjustable? dteails?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im looking at the upcoming BASIC. It looks like it has half the rate adjustment range, but more drop range than the FLEX. Im not really interested in the EDFC, so incompatibility is not an issue.

What I cant figure out is how does the adjustment work? do you adjust hight, damper bound, damper rebound, camber... what else is there? Is the damper bound adjustment what they mean when they say the spring rate is adjustable? dteails?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It actually has less adjustment than the Type Flex. No shock adjustment settings at all. Plus, the shock body is not adjustable--just the spring perch (like ground control). When you lower the car, you run out of shock stroke length and you'll be riding off of the bumpstops.

They are also valved less firm and they come with lighter springrates. Basically, it's a decent street suspension.

 

Ahh, well thats enlightening. so its just like Ground Controls, but with some dampers. OK.

Guess I'll hold out for Flex... any more info on those?

 

Sorry for sounding ignorant, but is the camber adjustable for the front and rear wheels on the Type Flex or just the front?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The Type Flex allows me to adjust camber with the built-in front camber plates.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anjapower &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry for sounding ignorant, but is the camber adjustable for the front and rear wheels on the Type Flex or just the front?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just front. The rear of the car is double-wishbone, so the typical control-arm camber adjustment kit is needed.

 

Im planning to get either Volk ce28 or Work Emotion's, so they should be somewhat light. Both are forged correct?

 

I like what I read.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just front. The rear of the car is double-wishbone, so the typical control-arm camber adjustment kit is needed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh ok...I was just confused because you didn't have one in your setup...

 

Todd00

Nice Review. So how did you go about solving the "infamous" steering tie rod length issue when lowered and using camber plates to adjust front camber?

In your last thread you said you were going to try something out. Would you care to share what you did to "fix" this problem? Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sjracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Todd00

Nice Review. So how did you go about solving the "infamous" steering tie rod length issue when lowered and using camber plates to adjust front camber?

In your last thread you said you were going to try something out. Would you care to share what you did to "fix" this problem? Thanks
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Going to buy a set of DC5 tie rods since a friend of mine from Honda R&D spec'd them out and the DC5 rods are actually shorter (the endlink on the EP3 is shorter than the endlink on the DC5 though, so I'll use the EP3 endlink).

They aren't short enough IMO, so I'm just going to have the tierod threaded a little more up the rod itself. I won't know if this will work until I have a set in my hands though. I don't think it will take too much more threading to get it to where it needs to be, especially on the shorter DC5 rod.

Other than buying the hard to import (and expensive) M&M adjustable tierod, this is the only cure that I know of right now.

 

wow ...sounds great ..we need pics ....

drop some weight ..and get LSD ..that EP3 will be an auto x beast

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tsunami_zc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow ...sounds great ..we need pics ....

drop some weight ..and get LSD ..that EP3 will be an auto x beast </TD></TR></TABLE>

Can't drop anymore weight legally in STS (besides add lighter boltons). LSD = different class.

Pics: