A the ITR Expo, on the second day, my car was bouncing pretty badly on right handers, when I went to change the wheels after my last run I encountered this sight in the left rear wheelwell:



One of my new-to-me Shocktek/Bilsteins had blown, saucing itself thoroughly. I'm not sure why it blew, it might have had something to do with install error (the first 2 days it was in this shock had a loose top nut and was makign an odd clunking sound, which may have doomed it, me ). Well, big boy parts have big boy problems sometimes, so this was my first chance to experience a blown shock, and obviously it would need to be rebuilt. The sleeves are GCs, springs are eibach 450 front and 600 rear. RR98ITR had these shocks converted to field servicable and single adjustable by Mike O'Callaghan at Shocktek, so a rebuild shouldn't be that big an issue i'm figuring, maybe 75-100 bucks.

RR98ITR suggests I contact Moriss Dampers (www.morissdampers.com), who have taken up the torch for working on shocktek products it seems. I contact them and tell them my problem, and the very helpful guy in charge of rebuilds contacts me back saying that they won't be able to re-use the adjustable ShockTek rod, he tells me they're inherently metalurgically flawwed and they won't even give them back to customers if they send their shocks in. He attached this photograph, which belongs to Moriss Dampers and not me, of some Shocktek rods:

CLICK HERE FOR THE PIC IT'S BIG AND MESSES UP THE FLOW OF THE THREAD


Here's a description of the rods from the old Shocktek site:
"As in our semi-custom products, the rod body is made of 4130 alloy steel, heat treated for both ductility and high strength, and then externally ground, polished and hard chrome plated. All other parts are made of high strength stainless steel using MIL standard fasteners when appropriate. The rod design has been through both analytical and actual qualification testing to assure large margins of safety in the design. We have also tested the rod for fatigue properties in documented accelerated tests, and have found the rod meets or exceeds the capabilities of the original Bilstein rod."

To get them redone to adjustable would require them to install a 13mm bilstien adjustable rod, which is not a cheap item...around 250 per shock with all the other goodies that would need to go in. I'm not keen on dropping a grand on all four shocks, especially since the rears have about 1000 miles on them...but understandably Moriss won't rebuild using what they know to be a faulty rod. Thankfully, Rinde (RR98ITR) included the stock rods, so i'm going to get the rear two rebuilt as non-adjustable but matched to the 600 lb/in. rear rate, and then further down the line, i'll get them re-converted to adjustable with bilstein stuff.

Just wondering if anyone else has encountered problems with Shocktek stuff...I want to thank RR98ITR for being so helpful and supportive of this stuff he sold me more than half a year ago, I of course don't blame him for the weirdness of the outcome, and I'm still really far ahead of the game with the deal he gave me on these things! Rinde!

Oh, and the Moriss guy was so sure my fronts would lunch themselves that he said he'd take $100 off a rebuild if the fronts last for more than one year, so i gotta take that pepsi challenge....

I'll keep you appraised.

CLIFF'S NOTES:
-Shocktek rods are fucked
-RR98ITR is good people
-Moriss Dampers will be rebuilding my rears as non-adjustble cuz i'm cheap for now
-600 lb./in. springs = boingy boingy with no damper.


EDIT: Changed rod pic to a link because i hate big pics that make you scroll back and forth to read the post


Modified by Aleph at 2:26 PM 4/17/2003

 

What I've learned from this experience is what I keep learning over and over as I grope my way thru life:

The more people I talk to the more I note this commonality: "I (We) are the experts in the field, and everybody else is operating several levels down". I've made fun of people who buy from the most convincing salesman regardless of other evidence, though I appreciate that that's a very human tendency. I'm also aware that when we're trying to understand complex technical products, we are appreciative of vendors who take extra time to talk to us. Sometimes that results in making decisions that later turn out to be less good than we thought. My purchase from Shocktek turned out that way in more ways than one, and I'm sorry that Aleph finds himself here now.

Mike O'Callaghan was where Bilstein themselves sent me a couple of years ago when I was looking into which way to go with shocks. I didn't want to spend the money on Ohlins, and I didn't want the proprietary service restrictions of KONI, and I was sceptical about Mugen. Mike seemed like the way to go. After alot of misteps, and 5 trips across the country as my spec changed I finally had to commit to trusting Scott Zellner and ordered a set of Mugen N1's so I could make the Expo at Buttonwillow. I spent more than I'd planned on the Bilstiens, and than I spent about that much again on the Mugens.

I tend to agree with Aleph that the fancy stuff sometimes brings more problems, which I think is fine if you go into it knowing what you're getting into. In this case neither of us knew what we were getting into.

Somebody like Lee might read this and thing "yep, that's what you get". But he probably has access to information that simply cannot be disseminated in the general marketplace. And so many of us are suckers for the differentiated product.

Bah! So now Aleph is in the hands of Moriss. From what I've heard they are decent people, and they know what they're doing (as much as I can say that I believe any of the people in the damper business know what they are doing). Part of me thinks that race dampers are not the place to take a chance on the little guy. I even remember reading somewhere about Leda's tendency to leak and that that was just part of normal life.

The good news is that the Bilstein components themselves are of very high quality, and the dampers have a useful life ahead of them.

Scott, who thinks we all still have it pretty good compared to people who race real race cars that break more parts for which replacements often have to be made from scratch....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aleph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Just wondering if anyone else has encountered problems with Shocktek stuff...</TD></TR></TABLE>

A left-rear shock blew on the set I had for my old SE-R within a year. Mike O. was nice enough to send me an entirely new set (about the only good thing I can say about his customer service ), but then the right-front blew again within a year. This was around the summer of 2001 (oh about a month before the Solo II championships ) when Shocktek was about ready to go out of business. I ordered another set for my raSEcaR and was just going to use that on the street SE-R until the broken shock was fixed, but then Shocktek mysteriously disappeared.

FWIW, I have heard two negative accounts of dealing with Moriss Dampers. One DSM guy (Dennis Grant for all you autox geeks) wrote his experience here and also detailed how he fixed them himself. Also, the guy who bought my old Shockteks off me has had nothing but the runaround from Moriss Dampers.

 

Dennis Grant posted the Shocktek rebuild info through Morris dampers about 6 months ago on team.net. I invertigated having my Shockteks rebuilt by them (BTW my Shockteks have two heavy seasons of autocrossing, 2 HPDEs and 15000 road miles on them with no probelms.)

The prices that Moriss wanted were higher than buying Koni singles. While I believe that the amount of work they need to do is worth the charge, I cannot see that the investment is worth it. I would rather go with Konis or something more expensive like custom stuff from Guy Ankeny.

Once again I am not knocking Moriss. They have been on the scene for at least two years and I have not heard anything bad about them.

I think that Shocktek just ran out of desire to handle this market. They have moved on to exotic military contracts for active damping systems using magneto-rheological materials (like Carrera race shocks and Cadillac's magnaride). Moriss was nice enough to take up the slack and do the service that Shocktek refuses to do.

Regards,
Alan "who is waiting for the money tree to bear fruit so he can spend $1k per shock like he should have the first time"

 

Anyone else have info on Moriss or experience with Shocktek stuff? Since I have the stock rods, getting them rebuilt should be a fairly inexpensive procedure, though I will of course loose the adjustability of the rears. After this season I'll reevaluate where I am, and either splurge for the adjustability rebuild on all shocks, or perhaps go a different direction. Thanks for the comments so far!

 

You're very close dollar-wise to coming out ahead if you just write these off and buy something else.

I know it's hard to do, but for a little extra you could get new shocks that were still adjustable. For example, rear rebuild is $500 - for $800 you could get two double-adjustable shocks valved to your specs. For $600 you can get single adjustable shocks valved to your specs... and if you're lucky enough to find someone that wants to deal with having your stuff rebuilt, you could get a little money for them and actually come out ahead...

** the prices I mentioned are from one company only. You might do even better with a different brand...

 

Have a look at what Dennis Grant did with his. He has not much good to say about Morris. Also have alook arount his site for some other good suspension material. Look here http://farnorthracing.com/shocks_2.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DB1-R81 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have a look at what Dennis Grant did with his. He has not much good to say about Morris. Also have alook arount his site for some other good suspension material. Look here http://farnorthracing.com/shocks_2.html </TD></TR></TABLE>

Very interesting reading...

Take a look at his Volks! 9.5" wide w/ 12mm offset!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Somebody like Lee might read this and thing "yep, that's what you get". But he probably has access to information that simply cannot be disseminated in the general marketplace. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You won't hear that from me. I think it is a little odd that Shocktek never really showed up as a blip on our radar screens other that seeing a few magazine classified ads and seeing some Z cars on their product at the ARRC. I'd heard they had gone down for the count.

Having spent quite a bit of time looking at wear on many shock rods, the issue looks to me like a problem with the depth of their chrome and maybe the smoothness of the chrome or rod machining rather than specifically metalurgy. You can't tell the rod diameters well from the pic but the upper ones ever seem to have some chrome pitting or flaking while they and the lower ones are mostly a basic wear situation in which the chrome finish couldn't hold up to the combination of heat and side loading. I do know that KONI does spend an EXTREME amount of money and effort in making their rods in-house really good and expect that Bilstein does much the same. I would think it would be extremely hard for a small company to put that much resource and focus into it and would have to outsource it to a company that may also not have the experience or volume to be as thorough and a high end shock company. This is typical of being a small business as you do the best you can with what you have and in the long run it might not be enough. Can't fault the guy for trying although I don't really know anything about him or his business.

I'd read that Moriss had picked up the Shocktek business slack but I don't know anything about their technical abilities. I have run into some issues of their business practices and seeming willingness to slam other companies online while using misleading info (eg. telling a Miata discussion list that a product was bad while citing examples of a normal street shock from a Neon that was used on a Pro-Rally car then posting dyno graphs from a motorcycle). Again that is a people thing and not a product or ability thing.

Whenever a small company positions themselves to improve on or refine a big companies product, the outcome could be good or bad or some of both. It is a risk we all take when trying to improve our toys. Sorry you've had the trouble. Like I've said to everyone else, if I can help let me know.

PS- I'm thinking your problem was not casued by the loose shock mount the day before, I think this was going to happen anyway and this was the time.

 

Got some pix of the shocks uninstalled:










Moriss has been very helpful on the phone so far, but I've heard a few negative things (see the link above), are there any other reputable bilstien shops? Since they're going to have to replace the rods anyway, I don't see why it matters if the shop has shocktek experience...the rods will be replaced with either bilstien adjustables or the stock bilstien rods i have...bilstien adjustbles have a 13mm shank however, while the shocktek and stock rods are 9mm according to Moriss. So that would mean total revalving if I go for the 13mm bilstien adjustables....does anyone have a diagram of shock internals so i have a better idea what I'm reading about? Thanks!

 

Scott, look up Kearney Racing in Maryland. I think they can revalve in house, or at least point you in the right direction.

Also, call Bilstein East and talk to the Motorsport division. They will and can revalve for end users.

edit: number for Bilstein East is 800/745-4636

Warren


Modified by Warren at 3:24 PM 4/18/2003

 

Look at the severe wear in the finish of the chrome rod just above the body. There is a lot of change in the conditon of that primarily used section of rod as this is the part that is normally working just in the guide area at or below the top of the shock body. The cause of the leakage is that the wear and scratches in the rod have gotten deep enough in the finish that the oil that is under the backpressure of the mono-tube high pressure gas charge is now finding a pathway out through those grooves. If the smoothness and hardness of these rods were not in question as they seem to be and if it was my own car, I would investigate to make sure that the mountings and running lengths of the shocks are not causing a binding or some reason for that much side loading or side wear as it operates in it's working stroke. On a shock car like this, the shock should never see any or much side wear (like a strut would) so this is extreme wear. Make sure your top mounting rubbers or pillow ball are allowing enough angle change to allow it to go through it's range without causing undue bowing or sideload. Also check your bottom mount.

FYI, it is always a good idea to do the last tighteneing of your upper and especially lower shock mount bolts when the car is sitting on the ground or at least at or near ride height. It is easier to do the final tighten when the shock is hanging at full droop but this tends to cause some wind-up or preload in the mounting rubbers when the car is then set on the ground and can be the cause of some unneeded side wear. Start the bolts to get everything together when it is at droop, tighten it to lock it in the final running position when it is at static ride height. Otherwise, the lower the car runs from max droop the more windup and premature wear in both the mount and the shock can occur.

 

I did wait until the car was resting on the ground for the final torquing, And I'm fairly certain that everythign was operating in-line like it should. The rods seem to be showing the wear that other shocktek rods suffer from, I think I've decided to get the rears rebuilt with bilstein adjustable rods so that I can maintain adjustability, rather than using the stock rods, which apparently would leave me at the "stiffest" setting for the given internal valving (which would be way too stiff for my taste, the car was very jittery over any imperfection at just one turn from full firm). Thanks for the opinions and help guys, i'll keep you updated on how long the fronts last.