How do these settings make a car feel or handle?
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How do these settings make a car feel or handle?
Just curious. Figure this on a 2000 Honda Civic Si:
0 toe all around
toe out front, toe in rear
toe out front, toe out rear
toe in front, toe out rear
toe in front, toe in rear
0 toe all around
toe out front, toe in rear
toe out front, toe out rear
toe in front, toe out rear
toe in front, toe in rear
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From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (CivicSiRacer)
Anyone who suggests answers in terms of "more oversteer", or "push like a bulldozer" is making a HUGE generalization. The overall over-/understeer balance of a car is the sum of a dozen or more variables that you can control so it is impossible to say what will result from any given deviation in F/R toe settings.
Like most science or engineering problems, you have to manage your variable before you can understand how they influence performance and one-another. Sorry - no easy answer. If you hold all other variables constant, say by specifying an otherwise stock 2000 Si on the OEM tires, then someone with experience could probably give you some general guidelines.
Kirk
Like most science or engineering problems, you have to manage your variable before you can understand how they influence performance and one-another. Sorry - no easy answer. If you hold all other variables constant, say by specifying an otherwise stock 2000 Si on the OEM tires, then someone with experience could probably give you some general guidelines.
Kirk
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From: NOVA, VA, Always on Travel
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (Knestis)
Kirk, thanks for the warning label at the bottom of your post. I wouldn't put much stock in Kirk's joke of a post.
Go Hokies!!!!
Go Hokies!!!!
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From: Springfield, Va, USA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (CivicSiRacer)
Oh, sure, I'll try the feel part, anyway. As noted, handling is a whole 'nother matter. Here it is, in one or two words each.
0 toe all around - pretty stable
toe out front, toe in rear - twitchy
toe out front, toe out rear - really twitchy
toe in front, toe out rear - twitchy
toe in front, toe in rear - real stable
0 toe all around - pretty stable
toe out front, toe in rear - twitchy
toe out front, toe out rear - really twitchy
toe in front, toe out rear - twitchy
toe in front, toe in rear - real stable
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From: Union, KY, USA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (Geezer)
I'll give it my shot with the aforementioned notes that these are only part of the big picture.
0 toe all around - stable and free but not amazing turn-in
toe out front, toe in rear - decent turn in on tight stuff but could be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces. Not too much added tendency to rotate
toe out front, toe out rear - Hold onto the wheel, she's gonna be responsive! Both ends will be active
toe in front, toe out rear - Can't imagine why you'd try this. Lessened turn-in but willing to rotate with roll aor weight transfer
toe in front, toe in rear - Stable to the point of scrubbing speed, poor turn-in
You have left out my preferred settings for street and track- Toe out front and zero toe rear which will give improved turn-in and limited scrub. Can be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces so don't use too much front toe unless youa re very comfortable with it.
0 toe all around - stable and free but not amazing turn-in
toe out front, toe in rear - decent turn in on tight stuff but could be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces. Not too much added tendency to rotate
toe out front, toe out rear - Hold onto the wheel, she's gonna be responsive! Both ends will be active
toe in front, toe out rear - Can't imagine why you'd try this. Lessened turn-in but willing to rotate with roll aor weight transfer
toe in front, toe in rear - Stable to the point of scrubbing speed, poor turn-in
You have left out my preferred settings for street and track- Toe out front and zero toe rear which will give improved turn-in and limited scrub. Can be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces so don't use too much front toe unless youa re very comfortable with it.
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From: SE, PA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (CivicSiRacer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll give it my shot with the aforementioned notes that these are only part of the big picture.
0 toe all around - stable and free but not amazing turn-in
toe out front, toe in rear - decent turn in on tight stuff but could be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces. Not too much added tendency to rotate
toe out front, toe out rear - Hold onto the wheel, she's gonna be responsive! Both ends will be active
toe in front, toe out rear - Can't imagine why you'd try this. Lessened turn-in but willing to rotate with roll aor weight transfer
toe in front, toe in rear - Stable to the point of scrubbing speed, poor turn-in
</TD></TR></TABLE>
CRXlee has it right.
I run toe out front and 0 in the rear. I also tried toe out front and toe in rear on track to help with threshold braking stability but went back to 0 in rear for better rotation in the corners.
0 toe all around - stable and free but not amazing turn-in
toe out front, toe in rear - decent turn in on tight stuff but could be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces. Not too much added tendency to rotate
toe out front, toe out rear - Hold onto the wheel, she's gonna be responsive! Both ends will be active
toe in front, toe out rear - Can't imagine why you'd try this. Lessened turn-in but willing to rotate with roll aor weight transfer
toe in front, toe in rear - Stable to the point of scrubbing speed, poor turn-in
</TD></TR></TABLE>
CRXlee has it right.
I run toe out front and 0 in the rear. I also tried toe out front and toe in rear on track to help with threshold braking stability but went back to 0 in rear for better rotation in the corners.
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From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (CivicSiRacer)
Did I mention "huge generalizations?" 
By the way - what the hell is a "hokie?" I've been here three years and with the "hoos" and "hokies" and stuff, it's like a freakin' Dr. Seuss book...
Kirk
(Who is moving to Greensboro so has to learn about college basketball)
By the way - what the hell is a "hokie?" I've been here three years and with the "hoos" and "hokies" and stuff, it's like a freakin' Dr. Seuss book...
Kirk
(Who is moving to Greensboro so has to learn about college basketball)
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From: Richmond VA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (Knestis)
A Hokie is a castrated turkey. I'm not sure what the relevance of that to toe specification is though.
~Chris, who's gf is a Hoo, has friends who are Hokies, and gets harrassed constantly for being a Cane.
~Chris, who's gf is a Hoo, has friends who are Hokies, and gets harrassed constantly for being a Cane.
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From: Buford, GA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (wspr22)
I just know that the hokies seem to lose a lot of football games when they play outside of their girly conference or when they play Miami.
Your friendly Georgia and SEC fan.
Your friendly Georgia and SEC fan.
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Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (chrisb)
I guess beating the defending SEC conference champs (LSU) last year has no meaning to you. Secondly, everyone knows the SEC is the king of the football conferences.
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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (wspr22)
Come and sing dear old Virginia's name
And make the Blue Ridge roar
For the world yields honor to her name
Who knew her deads yore
Then make each heart a flowing bowl
And pour our pledges strong
As down the ages still we roll
Virginia's triumph song
Once more our might has won the fight
We gain the victor's due
And all men raise their voice to praise
The orange and blue
So, through the years, like Cavaliers
We'll shout Virginia's name
It e'er shall be on land and sea
A sign of might and fame.
And make the Blue Ridge roar
For the world yields honor to her name
Who knew her deads yore
Then make each heart a flowing bowl
And pour our pledges strong
As down the ages still we roll
Virginia's triumph song
Once more our might has won the fight
We gain the victor's due
And all men raise their voice to praise
The orange and blue
So, through the years, like Cavaliers
We'll shout Virginia's name
It e'er shall be on land and sea
A sign of might and fame.
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Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (Crack Monkey)
And what the h*ll happened to WVU last winter? I thought that was going to be a good game.
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From: Christiansburg, VA, 24073
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (Crack Monkey)
So this went from a toe discussion to a discussion about school mascots and football games? (VT Alumni right here, Class of '02)
I too run toe out in front, and zero toe in rear. Quite darty at 70+mph.
I too run toe out in front, and zero toe in rear. Quite darty at 70+mph.
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From: Culpeper, VA
Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (CRX Lee)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll give it my shot with the aforementioned notes that these are only part of the big picture.
0 toe all around - stable and free but not amazing turn-in
toe out front, toe in rear - decent turn in on tight stuff but could be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces. Not too much added tendency to rotate
toe out front, toe out rear - Hold onto the wheel, she's gonna be responsive! Both ends will be active
toe in front, toe out rear - Can't imagine why you'd try this. Lessened turn-in but willing to rotate with roll aor weight transfer
toe in front, toe in rear - Stable to the point of scrubbing speed, poor turn-in
You have left out my preferred settings for street and track- Toe out front and zero toe rear which will give improved turn-in and limited scrub. Can be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces so don't use too much front toe unless youa re very comfortable with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Pretty damn right.. I like street cars w/ toe out the front, 0 rear..
The accord was setup w/ toeout in the rear, and in the front, EXTREMELY twitchy on the street, but the turn in and rotation was awesome the whole weekend!
0 toe all around - stable and free but not amazing turn-in
toe out front, toe in rear - decent turn in on tight stuff but could be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces. Not too much added tendency to rotate
toe out front, toe out rear - Hold onto the wheel, she's gonna be responsive! Both ends will be active
toe in front, toe out rear - Can't imagine why you'd try this. Lessened turn-in but willing to rotate with roll aor weight transfer
toe in front, toe in rear - Stable to the point of scrubbing speed, poor turn-in
You have left out my preferred settings for street and track- Toe out front and zero toe rear which will give improved turn-in and limited scrub. Can be darty at high speed or uneven surfaces so don't use too much front toe unless youa re very comfortable with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Pretty damn right.. I like street cars w/ toe out the front, 0 rear..
The accord was setup w/ toeout in the rear, and in the front, EXTREMELY twitchy on the street, but the turn in and rotation was awesome the whole weekend!
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Re: How do these settings make a car feel or handle? (wspr22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wspr22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put a UVA sticker on your car in the 04 ECHC series and I'll make sure punt you donw into a corner.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That good old song of
Wah-hoo-wah
We'll sing it o'er and o'er
It cheers our hearts and
warms our blood
To hear them shout and roar.
We come from Old Virginia,
Where all is bright and gay.
Let's all join hands and give a yell
For the dear old UVa
Wah-hoo-wah,
Wah-hoo-wah.
Uni-v, Virginia,
Hoo-rah-ray,
Hoo-rah-ray,
Ray! Ray! U-V-a
That good old song of
Wah-hoo-wah
We'll sing it o'er and o'er
It cheers our hearts and
warms our blood
To hear them shout and roar.
We come from Old Virginia,
Where all is bright and gay.
Let's all join hands and give a yell
For the dear old UVa
Wah-hoo-wah,
Wah-hoo-wah.
Uni-v, Virginia,
Hoo-rah-ray,
Hoo-rah-ray,
Ray! Ray! U-V-a
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