first, let me state that this is my daily driven 96 gsr. secondly, i am just asking for comments both good and constructive bad.

my set up:

koni sp3's
ground control coil overs
(400f, 350r)
spoon front and rear STB's (bling bling)
itr rear sway with beaks kit
15" gsr rims with aziens
hawk hps w/brembos

these mods come after 2 years of auto X and track days. I am looking at a second set of springs for track only, looking for suggestions on that. I currently place in the top five in almost all of the events i run in locally. i have been through several drivers schools in the past 5 years.

please commment on my setup, and if you have any suggestions for a "starting point" with the gc's please let me know.

Thanks in Advance.
-Scott


[Modified by Scary1109, 11:02 PM 4/2/2003]

 

i'm running gc's 450/600 on off ots koni sports, no front bar,and progress 22mm rear bar on a 94 ex. pretty stiff and plan to get shocks revalved to better match. that is on my dailey driver.

 

Seems like a *~front stiff* set-up...
For starters, what's your opinion of the set-up?

 

yeah, how do you like the car? imo, tuning for autocross is different then tuning for the track in that you need the car so that the driver is comfortable with it more then you need good power on rotation.

with that being said, if the gs-r is anything like my car, suspension travel with ots koni's is nearly non-existent at any ride height that gives enough front negative camber. i would definitely measure your current suspension travel. my guess is that you are precious short of any kind of travel. i very cheap and effective solution would be to buy the gc upper strut mounts. they work both in the front and the rear, so buy two pairs (they are only $75/pr). and if it were me setting up the car, i would raise the spring rates to 600f/550r for autocross and 600f/800r for track.

nate-who had zero suspension travel last year. bumpstops 0wn me!

 

I'm assuing you're targeting STS right?

How's the car now? does rotate well? do you need more rotation? understeer?

what about toe out? are you running any? front? rear?

I'd also check your shock travel like Nate said. I had a lot of problems with the front shocks bottoming out (especially on rougher courses).

If I had to suggest anything I would up your rear rates but I'm just suggesting what I like and have become comfortable with. maybe 500lbs in the rear for STS.

with out driving the car its tough to give you my opinion but try and answer the questions I asked and we'll go from there. Nate is right tho you really want the car to be comfortable to drive and quick on course. its tough to drive a car fast, that doesn't inspire confidence.


[Modified by MWatkins, 10:27 AM 4/3/2003]

 

first off, thank you for the great replys

my set up currently is everything listed except i have blues with sportlines on it. (yes i know that they aren't idea for what i was doing...that's why i got the koni's and gc's)

my car as compaired to others i race against is faster then 75% of them. the sportlines have 330f and a progressive rear ( i forgot what the rates are). so i increased the spring rates by a percentage and ordered them.

the koni's and gc's are in their boxes waiting for me to install them.

i like the way it handles now, but i would be very happy if it rotated more. that's why i chose 350 to start in the rear.

i would like not to have to have the koni's rebuilt after a year, and keep in mind i drive this thing every day.

Thanks again for the great replys

-Scary

 

Well, first off... getting away from the progressive springs is a definite plus. I've never been a fan of them.

I think this will be an improvement over what you already have. I'd still be concerned with the chance that the front shocks might bottom out. Keep an I open for extreme push in the front of the car. use zip ties ion the shocks if this happens. I wouldn't worry about shock travel in the back, our cars have plenty of room to travel in the back... but fronts can run out pretty quick.

If the car still needs more rotation and you don't want to up the springs in the back... (and I think it will) ... you can add some toe out to the back of the car and/or use some more extreme tire pressures back there.

If I went back to STS with my GS-R I would run something close to 450F and 550-600R (probably 600). I would get the shocks revalved and have the fronts shortened. Keep the stock front bar... (24mm?) and a 22mm rear bar (I like the comptech bar ). Should have enough rotation to run zero toe front and rear. But I might throw an 1/8th or a 1/16th up front to help turn in... As for shocks : 50-60% stiff in the front and I think about 70% stiff in the rear. start with LOW (I remember the Azenis like low pressures for some reason) even tire pressures, maybe 35-36 for both the front and rear. Tune it from there....

just thinking out-loud... I could be off but I think that's what I would have done.


EDIT : As an after thought... 450F 350R should be fine for daily driven... I've done 500F/400R & 500F/600R daily driven and have been fine tho 500F/600R is starting to get rough. I let you know about 650F/800R in a few weeks.


[Modified by MWatkins, 11:44 AM 4/3/2003]

 

he he.....

if i could tow my car instead of daily drive it, my sts setup would look like this:
950f/800r on mouton ext. res. dampers, 24mm front bar/26mm rear bar, 4 inch ride height measure to jack tabs, -3* front camber, -2* rear camber, 225/50/15 bfg's front/205/50/15 bfg's rear mounted on 15x7.5 ssr comp's.

but then i remember i'm poor and have to daily drive this beast.

nate-yeah, i know, ya'll think it'll push like a pig.....

edit: i've driven my car on springs as high as 700fr and 800rr and it ain't that bad. i guess it really depends on what your definition of ride quality is.


[Modified by solo-x, 9:26 PM 4/3/2003]

 

Don't overpower your tires with super high spring rates. If you plan on staying in STS, keep the rates around 400...
Alignment and shock settings will really be the key to sorting out the car.
If it were me, I would bump the rear rates to 550, though, and put a bigger sway bar on the front *and* rear.

 

Or where you live. Around here we have some of the nations worst roads and I get to drive on them every day. It's a bad sign when you know all the "trouble spots" an a 1 hour stretch of freeway.

And to keep on topic, you setup will push too much. Stiffer rear springs would be optimal.

 

For the first time ever I don't think I'm really confused by one of your setups.
I know what you mean nate... try building a competative SP car that is also daily driven.
Actually I don't think it will... 225s in the front 205s in the rear? 26mm rear bar?
I think that might be ok... with a little toe out in the back. I DO think those spring rates are a little high for street rubber. Just my opinion and I don't mind being proven wrong.
Yeah, but you take your dentures out when you drive like that right?

 

i've heard a lot of talk about spring rates being too high for street rubber. i've experienced a situation were the spring rate of a tire was lower then the suspension spring rate when i was driving around on my snow tires. that happened at a relatively low rate of 700f/600r, and the car was basically bouncing like a rubber ball down the road. i've yet to experience that same effect with even higher spring rates that i'm using now with the falkens. imo, i don't think you have to worry about the spring rate of a falken being lower then your suspension spring rate until you are well over 500lbs/in wheel rate.

as far as the suspension being so stiff you "shock" the tires at corner entry.... ya got me. i don't even know for sure that this is something that can happen with todays tires. with the amount of racing i did last year riding on my bumpstops, i can't imagine it being a big deal until you are so high with your spring rates that your suspension doesn't move at all. ie: telephone pole swaybars and steel rod's for shocks.

nate

 

i really apprecaite all the good feed back!

one of the criteria that i am looking for is not to have to rebuild the sp3's yet. there's been plenty of debate on what they really can "handle" as far as rates. i took a conservative stance and grabbed 400f and 350r.

after i installed the itr rear sway, it removed 90% of the understeer from my car. even with the crappy rear sportline rates. so i figured that if i up the rears at a higher percentage then i up'ed the fronts i would maintain a balanced set up.

having stated that this is a daily driver, i need some comfort..... now i am not talking lazy boy style, but i don't want it to hurt when i roll over a stone in the road.

would it be anyones advise to go ahead and order another set of rears in the 400 range? or just to try out the 350's?

thanks
-Scary

 

Get 600's in the rear.

 

will regular valved koni sp3's handle that for at least a year?

 

I would doubt it, but I've been surprised before. If you're thinking about revalving next year how about this idea... Get 450s for the rear right now (shocks should handle those no problem till next year). Then next year when you're ready to revalve... move the 450s to the front and get 600s for the rear. Revalve the shocks and get the front shortened....

i think that would be my game plan if I was a reasonable human...


[Modified by Watkinsm3, 6:59 PM 4/3/2003]

 

I have been known to say this every time I make a change to my suspension. And for the most part it it's true until I learn to push the car harder and faster, then I get pushing again.

The most cost efective thing you can do is run what you got until it feels like it pushes again. Then try swapping your springs front to back. If it still pushes, go with higher spring rates in the back.

 

excellent advise, i hadn't even thought of that yet... i am dumb!

to the honda-tech autox'ers

Thanks and keep it coming!!!!!
Scary

 

That's a really good point... Some of us have been driving some of these looser setups so much we forget about how we "grew" into them. I remember when I first got my 500F/400R setup on the car I spun it at my first event... Now 500F/600R understeers too much for my liking.

I stand by my last statement.
That should give you room to grow



[Modified by Watkinsm3, 7:13 PM 4/3/2003]

 

I think Matt's plan for suspension changes is better. I didn't see it before as I was typing my reply when he posted his.

 

i guess i'll be calling ground control soon . i'd love to see some of you guys on the track. anyone run in the north east, we may have met before
Thanks
Scary

 

I'm north east but I doubt we've met... last time I was in upstate NY was for college (Clarkson U. in Potsdam NY... really upstate ). I wasn't racing then... I'm in PA/NJ these days.