I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this question but here it goes...

Heres the story. I have a loaded 2000 Accord EX 4-cyl that I would like to keep in a relatively stock package (no h22a swaps for this car). But seeing as my motorcycles put out nearly the same peak WHP as the Accord, I wanted to try to get every little bit out of the F23 that I could. Please remember, I am a n00b at this whole car tuning thing, but I used most of my bike experience to get started with the bolt-on power sessions.
First thing I did was pull the stock airbox and replace it with a custom made short intake. This gave me a some definite extra pull and a little better sound too.

Next I got a killer deal on a new Apexi RS cat-back system and installed that right away. I was looking a something not too loud and was originally going to get the Apexi WS system, but I found this old stock for a price I couldnt pass up. It breathes better (though maybe not as good as some of the more rice-boy setups like the N1 or the Greddy Evo) than the stock dual-muffler-single-outlet system. Again, it pulls so much harder way up in the rev range over the old stock setup (4500RPM+).

The last thing I have picked up, though not installed, is a DC Sports CC 4-2-1 two piece header. I picked this thing up cheap so I figured I would nab it just in case I wanted/needed to use it.

Now I am at a point where I would like to bring the car to a chassis dyno to check my power output and A/F ratio before installing the header and risking pulling in a lean mixture and causing engine damage. Then assuming everything is all good I would like to install the headers to see what gains/losses I will get and recheck the A/F.

So.......

Has anyone had experience with a similar/identical setup where they could offer some insight to possible lean conditions? Or maybe what I have, which isnt alot, is still within the range of adjustability of the stock Honda sensors (O2, MAF, and whatever else the car uses)? Will adjusting the timing gears have any big effects on this motor? I realize this is a typically non-breathing SOHC motor but I need to start somewhere.

Also any other suggestions for nudging that last bit of power from this lump would be appreciated.

Thanks

Frank Corona
frank@fcorona.com
http://www.fcorona.com

 

Turbocharge it!!

 

With those mods, you should be running high 15s to low 16s in the 1/4 mile. You could try getting a new throttle body. They go for pretty cheap. Also, do you plan on going turbo? Or maybe nitrous?

 

if you want to stay NA you've made a good start. you should add pullies, a cam gear, V-AFC, and a FPR before you try to dyno it. that way you have some things you can tune, instead of just running it to see what you've got.

otherwise there are only 2 Qs

How fast do you want to go?
How much do you want to spend?

and those 2 Qs are directly related

 

well said, jweller

Turbocharge it!!-true

stay NA- new tb, cam, etc..

what's up with joo SN anyway?


[Modified by iam7head, 4:22 AM 3/21/2003]

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=443382

 

U shouldn't really worry much about the header. The header doesn't affect your A/F ratio at all. The only reason i could think of that the header could mess up your A/F is if you mess up one of the O2 sensor and the ecu adjusts to what it's reading from the O2 sensor.

Other than that good luck.

 

Yes, I would like to keep it N/A. I had one turbo car in my life, though it was a POS, it still left a bad taste in my mouth everytime I say turbo. Fast as hell but too many blown heads, turbos, and tranny's.



Whats a FPR ?? Sorry

Cool. I kind of figured that, but like I said, most of my mechanic/modding experience comes from bikes. My TL1000s became SOOOO lean (>16.8:1 from 8000-11500 RPM)after gutting the air resonance box (keeping the ram air) and piping it. The big difference there is it uses a semi-static FI map with no O2 sensors to try to regulate itself. A PC2 and a dynorun to remap made a world of difference. I just wanted to avoid a costly mistake like running that lean for extended periods.

lol...sorry for all the edits......
What suggestions are there for new TB's or cams? Is there a manufacturer that makes drop-in cams that really work, or would it be best to have them custom ground/lobed for my car? And what about the TB's?

Thanks again.





[Modified by godslayer, 5:44 PM 3/21/2003]

 

FPR is a Fuel Pressure Regulator. lets you adjust the fuel pressure up or down across the entire RPM band. sometimes you can make more power by adding or removing fuel pressure. You can get a decent one (B&M) along with an underhood pressure guage for about $100 I think

best bet on the TB is to use one from a prelude or ITR. they pretty much bolt right up I hear. get teh plenum port matched or you won't see any benifits.


[Modified by jweller, 10:02 AM 3/21/2003]

 

What TB would be a better on to go with?

An H22 or would an H23 work just as good?

 

My F23 ran too rich when getting it dynoed with CAI, Cat-back, UR crank pulley, and VAFC.

I would suggest staying away from pulleys.

Look into a hondata system, the base systems are fairly cheap and you probably won't need the more advanced systems. Cam gear might be a good idea, i'm getting one soon and I'll post about gains/losses on that.

 

it ran too rich on the dyno with a VAFC? why didn't you adjust it?

 

It was leaned out 4%.

 

did you try adjusting the timing?

 

Iginition timming?

That didn't get adjusted becuase I don't think the tech. know all that much. He said the F23's had set iginition timming and it couldn't be adjusted, though I'm fairly sure thats bs.

 

after installing those basic bolt ons...intake/exhaust/headers...usually just resetting the ECU and letting her idle for a couple minutes is enough for the car to compensate and whatnot for the new stuff...i'm pretty sure just that will keep you from being too lean or rich.

 

The bolt ons had all been on for a while. I just went to the dyno to get the VAFC tuned. I've heard of some other people in here with F23's that run on the rich side with some basic bolt ons. I don't think there's a problem with that if you tune it right.

 

if u are staying na
the other things u could do for power is tes pipe, cam gears, and pulleys. if u really want to make it go faster u have to reduce the weight of the car. pull ac out and other stuff. the choice is urs. their are lots of things u could do to make it go a little faster.

 

what was your air/fuel ratio..? how could your f23 run too rich with those modifications..?

 

The tech is right.

My obd2 F22 is the same way. Move the cam gear....ecu moves the timing back to 15 degrees btdc.

 

I didn't know that moving the cam gear on the obd2's also changes your iginition timing.



[Modified by 3700 Vtec, 12:54 PM 3/25/2003]

 

I don't have a wideband O2 sensor and I know that the readings from the A/F gauges using the sensor of the header are inaccurate, though after the tech leaned it out 4%, the hp went up from 2 to 5 hp throughout. So it had to have been running too rich.

 

The distributor runs off the other side of the cam. If it wasnt for the ecu dialing it back, retarding your cam would retard the ignition timing as well.





[Modified by niedejb, 4:10 PM 3/25/2003]

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't iginition timing and valve timing controlled independently. At least in the case of some of the older honda motors.

 

Yes.

OBD1 hondas had to have the distributor moved if the intake cam was advanced or retarded (since the ecu didnt change the timing back to 15 degrees btdc).

They were also able to advnce the crap out of their timing (NA) to free up some horsepower.

Think of it this way.

You can change your valve timing with a cam gear. It has no way electrically to
compensate for this.

You can move your distributor around to mess with timing, but if its OBD2 the ecu will add or subtract from it regardless of position.

If you move the cam gear, you change valve AND ignition timing.

If you leave the cam gear alone and move your distributor (on a OBD1) you change ignition timing only.