Well, seems if you lower the EP3 too much in the front, you'll run into tierod problems. The tierods are too long and you end up having problems getting the toe within spec when lowered and trying to get camber at a decent setting (around 2 degrees).

So, I had to compromise. 1.4 degrees negative camber in the front with 1/16" total toe-out. This was about the max I could do. Anymore toe out and I'd need to reduce camber. Anymore camber and toe-out would need to be reduced. I'm running Tein Type Flex with the camber plate in the front.

With this, it seems that someone (if they don't already) needs to make different tierods (or some other solution) for the EP3/RSX. Specifically, shorter tierods are probably needed.

Note that my car isn't slammed. The front tire is not tucked--it has about 1 finger between the tire and fender. I'm not sure what the other RSX/EP3 owners have found out about this, but I know that a few race teams have encountered this problem and I need to find out what kind of solution they came to.

The only solution right now is to raise the car back up. I guess I did drop the car about 3" or so. I went from a 4 finger gap to a 1 finger gap, so that's pretty impressive in it's own right.

 

With the GC's, you won't be able to go as low as I did anyways (well, you won't want to). You'll run out of shock travel if you slam it too much with them.

So, you should be ok unless you like bumpstop springrate

 

Very good information to have. Thanks Todd00 for clearing this up. Are you having any fender rub under hard cornering with the Teins?

 

So far, no. The front wheels will tuck and so will the rears. I'm running the wide 215/45/16 Azenis on 7.5" rims as well.

 

I've heard that on ep3/dc5, the tie rods may break if the car is lowered too much (up front) and I've also seen this happen on a Spoon ep3 in one of the Hotversion episodes
but haven't heard about the alignment related problems before

are there adjustments on the stock tie rods? I thought there are length adjustments on the tie rods for toe adjustments... I could be wrong

 

There are adjustments on the stock tie rods. You just run out of adjustment if you try to dial in camber.

 

now thats a problem
then it really needs some attention!

Todd00, whats the range of camber adjust. on the camber plate on your Flex?
and what front camber are you aiming for?

 

Camber on the Flex is (I believe) +3 to -3. It's a pretty wide range.

I want about 1.8 - 2 degrees negative.


[Modified by Todd00, 11:20 AM 3/19/2003]

 

Maybe you can try mounting the tie rods from bottom up like this:



I've noticed that ALOT of the DC5's in Japan have their tie rods set up like this... I think its mainly set up like that so that when the car is lowered, there is a little more clearance for the tie rod to move around in... but maybe it might also solve your alignment related problem!!! Let me know the results if you get a chance to try that out!!!

Im going to try to translate that description beside the pics to see what it's saying once I get home from work... if anybody can read japanese and can explain what its saying, that would be appreciated


[Modified by CH-02DC5, 1:54 PM 3/19/2003]

 

Can't see the pic. If you want to email it to me, I'll post it up on my server. (or, host it on we-todd racing)


[Modified by Todd00, 3:06 PM 3/19/2003]

 

hm... it was up rite after I posted it~~~
anyways, I'll email it to u rite now!

edit: Todd00, I just sent the pic over to ur email!


[Modified by CH-02DC5, 3:36 PM 3/19/2003]

 

Looks like they just put the bolt in backwards and placed the tie rod on the bottom of the attachment. Interesting!


[Modified by Todd00, 4:35 PM 3/19/2003]

 

yes, thats all they did which should somewhat solve the breaking problem of the tie rods... MAY help w/ your alignment problem as well by giving it like a mm or 2 more on the adjustment from the change in geometry of the tie rod positions...

 

Actually, it would hurt the adjustment range as this will 'increase' the length of the tierod (by making it more vertical). I am maxxed out on toe adjustment as it is.

 

Looks like someone knows about this and has made different tie rods:



Babelfish's wonderful translation:

M&M total length pitch integral expression tie rod bar set

To drop the height, attendant upon the modification in camber angle, To? In angle is corrected in optimum position. With the genuine modification degree of range ±10, as for carrying to best position it is impossible. In addition, also danger of falling off and problem of strength come out. Total length pitch integral expression sets the adjustment range to the degree of ±60 vis-a-vis this. Of course, it increases strength, there is no either worry of falling off. The material turn buckle system of the aluminum is welding type in the tie rod

http://www.mandm-honda.com/tune/parts/sus.html


[Modified by Todd00, 10:07 PM 3/19/2003]

 

oh man... I bet that was poignant after all that money you spent.
lets us know on what tierod u end up using
** for having to raise your car back up


[Modified by eg_nezay, 7:53 AM 3/21/2003]

 

What is the toe spec for the ep3?
I think I need to clear that up first because I thought u wanted less toe-out...
thats why I thought moving the tie rod from the top to the bottom position would help since it would induce toe-in
sorry about that...

also, are you using the camber adjustable UCAs in the rear w/ the Flex?

 

Camber in the rear is about 2.2 negative or so. Not too bad. I will get a kit in the future, but I'm in no hurry because that isn't anything extreme.

And when you lower the front, the tie rods are too long and they make the car toe-in. Since the rods are on the back of the strut, they naturally angle the assembly with toe-in.

Toe-in does not make for a good handling car. Toe-out is far better for turning. I am out of toe-out adjustment as it stands.

The solution is different tie-rods, mounted upside down. Then, the car will be able to be aligned anyway I need it to be.

 

Cool, thanks for clearing it up for me
cause I wasn't sure what toe spec you were aiming for...

is that tie rod an universal piece (since it doesnt state the application)?
so u suspect it will give you enough length adjustment (to the short side)?

I'll be getting a set of coilovers real soon too, so I'd like to find a solution for this too!

 

sorry for bringing this thread up from the dead...

Here's what i'm thinking, i could be wrong, but bare with me.

Why not just set the camber plates to Zero (factory centered position) and change the camber using camber bolts on the strut housing to hub connection?

Wouldn't the adjustment using, lets say, an Ingalls front camber kit instead of the camber plates that came with your coilovers, solve the whole "adjustment" problems with the toe?

Yes i know what a waste of a good camber plate, but hey, atleast you still have the rigidity of the upper pillow ball mount, instead of the stock upper mount with rubber bushing, for the track.

That's just my opinion. Thanks for listening...late

Edit: I do like those shorter tie rods in the above post!

 

I'm not sure that any real harm will come from mounting the tie rod from underneath. The offroad guys do the opposite when adding a lift since they tend to have the tie rod mounted in the lower position. Mullet engineering.

 

Camber bolts scare me. I've seen a set on an RSX and I'd much rather adjust camber with the plates on the top. It just seems like a more secure way to do it.

I have another idea for the oem tierods though. Just thread the one side of the rod a little further up and cut that equal measurement length off of the outside edge of the rod. That should keep the rod strong and allow plenty of room for adjustment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Camber bolts scare me. I've seen a set on an RSX and I'd much rather adjust camber with the plates on the top. It just seems like a more secure way to do it.

I have another idea for the oem tierods though. Just thread the one side of the rod a little further up and cut that equal measurement length off of the outside edge of the rod. That should keep the rod strong and allow plenty of room for adjustment.</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually camber bolts shouldn't be a problem...they are quite strong and they get torqued down at 100ft/lbs. as long as you torque them down with the proper torque value, then you should be fine.

your idea sounds good though ...tell me how it goes...late

 

how about cutting your own threads on the tierod

and then cutting off a couple of mm

it would give you a better usable range of adjustment

could also mount them upside down so it won't be such a steep angle

only problem with modifying the stock tierods is that you wouldn't be able to go back to stock sus

 

i had same problem on my rsx with race coilover,i didn't lower too much only 2.5 inch around,but i need more camber setting for track day,but the tierods can't go in anymore,i use other car shorter tierods to put on,after that i can change my camber from -2 to -4.5 at the front,the toe is 0...
sorry i forgot the tierods from what car...what i remember is 92 toyota tercel,try try,hope it will help u!!