This is for the EXPO organizers.

Can you give us some details about any liability situations we might need to know about that first time track event participators like myself might not be aware of.

My car is insured under my parents name at the moment so when I told them I was entering a track event they had some valid concerns. I will outline two concerns below:

In the situation where an instructor is in the car with a student and an accident occurs for whatever reason, driver error, or uncontrollable event (tire blow out) and the instructor is injured, what liability does the driver have in this scenario. Does the instructor sign a waiver releasing the driver of any liability?

In the situation where an accident occurs due to driver error or uncontrollable event where other drivers/instructors outside of said drivers vehicle are hurt, what liability does the driver face?

Basically, how does liability come in to play at this event, I know none of us are thinking about this side of the event, but its better to be safe than sorry.

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Aamir



[Modified by AamirCWITR, 7:28 PM 3/14/2003]

 

My parents brought up a couple of these questions as well when I told them I was thinking about going to Speed Trials USA up in Gingerman. I know the track has insurance and the event itself has insurance... But say you crash your car or something. Does your PERSONAL auto insurance pay for the damages (assuming you have comprehensive coverage), or does the event insurance pay for the damages?

My parents seem to think since you're racing on a race track your personal automotive insurance will not cover anything that happens during the event.

 

as far as personal insurance goes, I wouldnt expect them to pay for your damages when you were on a track RACING your car. I dont think they will incure the costs to repair your car for racing it. If they find out you are racing it, you are lucky if they dont drop your coverage. Might depend on what insurance you have though.

 

Diffferent insurance has different coverage. Last time i check with State Farm, they would cover me cause its a driving school, but if it was not, then i'm not covered. There should not be any insident even if it is your first time since this event will be run so well. Its up to you to not drive over your limit and get in trouble.

 

This event in not a 'race'. It is an 'instructional event'. That is what speedtrials and companies like them call their events at least.

If you are racing at the EXPO, that is, racing others (and not just the clock or yourself), you will probably get flagged, brought in, and told to 'chill out' or asked to take a break.

As far as if your insurance will cover you at this HPDE-like 'instructional event', I have no idea.....

I'm sure others can enlighten us on the details.

 

From what I`ve heard, you are ok if it`s considered a driving school. If it`s a timed event or wheel to wheel racing you are phucked. Worse case scenario, tow it out onto the street and report a hit an run

 

All very good points which is why THIS IS NOT A RACE SCHOOL!!!!!!!


This is an EDUCATIONAL EVENT!

That being the case your personal insurance should cover you. As for liability the waivers you will sign release the track and organizers from liability but I would expect someone in your car that might be injured would be covered by peronsal insurance just as they would be if you were on the street.

The event isnurance is liability insurance t protect the participants but shoudl not be looked at as property insurance to cover damages. That said damages to the track property will be the liability of the sturdent/driver and should be paid for by them or the insurance company.

I have had 2 cars wreck and total at Schools I have organized and both were covered by their personal insurance without any issue. There are key things that should be and not be said and hopefully I will not have to coach ANYONE on what these things are.

Trey

 

Sorry to be so "to the point", but for the most part you assume full liability for your actions and the conduct of your vehicle both on and off the track.

Just keep this in mind at all times and you'll be fine!

 

The EXPO is NOT a RACE !!! In fact, it's a HPDE like those hosted by NASA.
Every insurance co. have different way to deal with accident happen on the track.....but in general, they may cover any damage occur to the car since this is NOT a competition event.

FYI....2 of my friends got accident at the track, they both got insurance paid for the damage of their car (one is 911 C2).

 

Personally speaking, if an instructor is going to hold me liable while being in my car, I think I would rather not have an instructor in my car at all. When I go driving with my friends or family in my car, I can be pretty sure they would not hold me liable if an accident were to occur.

Would instructors be willing to sign a waiver to not hold the driver liable just as we as participants sign a waiver to not hold instructors and course owners liable in case of an accident?

I also want to stress, I'm not going to this event to drive like a mad man and then want to assume no responsibility. Im going simply to enjoy myself, I am not trying to beat any lap times or anything of the sort, if anything I'll be ten times more cautious on the track than I am on the street. I just want to make sure neither my parents or myself will get into some horrible litigation if something unexpected happens.

 

You have no choice of whether or not you can have an instructor in your car.

You will have an instructor in your car.

 

Im not so worried about my car and myself as I am hurting someone else or damaging someone elses property. Does anyone have any real world info regarding these situations, simply put, many of you say insurance wont cover you if your at a driving school, since it could be seen as racing, if I'm not covered and I hurt somone else, what then? I have no coverage, yet I'm liable, not a good situation. I have no experience in these matters so for those who have been through all this before, thanks for your patience and your knowledge....

 

Do you mean to say if you rolled your car on the street and your freind was put in the hospital you think they would cover their 2 weeks in the hospital out of their own pocket? Sure they have health insurance but you think their Health insurance isn't going to make your car insurance cover the damamges first? Your insurance will pay first. . .

No instructor will sign that waiver and we would not ask them to. At no other event will you find that and there are no reasons they should. Your auto insurance is who will go to litigation and as long as you were within reason with your actions you will not need to worry about civil suits.

You should look at how other events are run since this is a direct model of others like NASA, Speedtrials, Car guys and the like. We will strictly follow their guidelines and this include liability and insurance issues.

Trey

 

Simple...

Call your insurance company and ask them. Our opinion/speculation means nothing.

 

Be SURE you stress this is a Driving school in a closed environment where at no time will things be considered a race (No timers or placing for finishes) amnd flags are used for SAFETY purposes only.

And I will stress I have never heard of an insurance company not covering someone as long as the proper wording as to the purpose of the event is used.

Trey

 

Sounds good guys, Im calling them now and stating im participating in drivers educational event at Beaver Run, and wil have instructors in my car, Ill ask to tell me anything I should know about, I wanted to get a general idea before I spoke to them.

thanks

 

Proper wording is key. If you slip and say RACE when you meant to say Driving School, that is going to throw up a red flag and they will start to try to find a reason not to cover you. We all know its not a race, but proper terminology is key when speaking the insurance co about this sort of thing(also very key in dealing with totalled cars).

 

If I was an insurance company I would include a clause about not covering vehicles on any race track, regardless of what they are there for.

 

you are MORE safe to have an instructor sitting next to you (especially this is your first time on the track).

 

Well, the street is more dangerous if you aren't RACING on the track.

If you do race at expo, j00r *** will get bitchslapped by the almightly Grandpa.

 

why?

http://www.wisenberg.com/MOTORLINK.htm

 

Thank you grandpa for those words of wisdom.

 

Now back to the normal useless threads...

 

WISE with his old age

 

Hey George,

I say we talk more about it over some fine Pakistani food at Aabshaar restaurant....maybe we can install those axxis ultimates and brake fluid too