Bah! I'm going in on the 18th for a dyno tune with the hack setup at 8 psi ... VAFC with 440s and a Walbro 255. I'll be installing everything on the 17th because it's basically the only day I'm free. So anyway, the owner of the shop that's doing it -- Motorsport Dynamics ( http://www.motdyn.com ) -- says it won't work!

He called and questioned me about what setup I would be using (to help them prepare for time and what not), and I told him I was going to use the hack setup. I explained what it does, why it works, and how many H-T heads have used it, and he said, "Okay, let me talk to Henry (the head mechanic who helped build a 700+ hp Supra)." 15 minutes later, he calls back and says Henry doubts it will work because he doesn't see how the engine would be receiving enough fuel if the AFC cuts it by -40% and around -35% up top. He said I'll just be running way lean w/ those settings (or similar ones, depending on who you talk to).

Sooooo. . . . Shall I trust all you H-T heads with faith that the AFC hack works? Motorsport Dyamics has never used the AFC in this way, which is why they're probably skeptical. The owner told me that they'll still try it if I want, but if it doesn't work out, I'll be charged dyno time, which is $100/hour. I mean, the shop knows their stuff, but they don't like doing things untraditionally.

Feedback regarding this situation?

Thx.

 

Find a tuner that is familiar with the hack.

 

find a tuner who can do math....

Injectors that are nearly 50% larger than stock, and cutting 35% off the map....

 

thats the same thing sfp told me. Hmmm....

 

lol... i had to convince inline pro that it would work... they tuned it the way it was supposed to be and they were surprised the car ran fine... they thought my map sensor was dead or something... where's the CEL..? haha... at one point, i had to call liam on my cell and have him explain the concept to the tuner... they are used to the old-fashioned fmu setup w/ something similar to the missing link... i think they use a map defenser (sp?)...

 

BINGO! That's the same deal with Motorsport Dynamics. I mean, they're one of the best tuners in my area, but they're used to the traditional AFC+FMU+310s+missing link. When something is new that they haven't tried, they get weary and pessimistic.

So you know what I'm talking about, eh? I'll just have to convince them it'll work and to go ahead and dyno tune it off the "basemap" hack settings.

I have faith in the H-T hack. . . .

 

Just for confirmation, here are the settings I'll be using initially:

Narrow Throttle, Lo & Hi cam --
1000-4000 rpm ... -40%
4500 rpm ... -38%
5000 rpm ... -36%
5500-7500 rpm ... -35%

Wide Throttle, Lo & Hi cam --
1000-4000 rpm ... -40%
4500 rpm ... -38%
5000 rpm ... -36%
5500-7500 rpm ... -35%

Throttle -- 98% low, 99% high (I know it doesn't make a difference.)

Sounds good? These are the settings off The Drop Shop's webpage.


[Modified by Daniel, 4:30 AM 3/13/2003]

 

they will give you the usual "this is unchartered territory for us... this is your car... are you sure you want to try this (cause we're not responsible)" type of stuff... if you do happen to get a CEL, you may need to trim more fuel... that's just one possibility... that happened to me... my settings are -35% all the way wide throttle and -30 at narrow throttle... i think -35% to -40% is the ideal range if i'm not mistaken... -good luck...

 

Isn't that why your going to the dyno?...to fine tune it.....I'm skeptical about these guys. Just because you start with those setting (-35% -40% etc) doesn't mean that your staying with those settings. Thats just a baseline, you hook it up to the dyno to check the power and accurate air/fuel ratio so you can make adjustments....I don't see what there problem it. Do they just dyno cars to find out what the hp is? Or do they dyno cars to tune them?????
The guys that do my dyno tuning specialize in domestics (have a mid 50's vette making 500+hp, a early 70's malibu making 600+hp n/a and several other cars making 400+hp)...but are more then happy to dyno+tune my car when I stop by (of course they charge me $75)...I trust them because they build cars for a living....Voicing there oppinon is one thing but questioning something that has been proven to work is another......
btw that malibu (still street driven) they are building it to max out their dyno (1200hp) they are going turbo soon, its the owners goal to max the dyno out...

 

No, they do everything ... engine swaps, dyno tune, dyno runs, oil changes, header installs, suspension installs, you name it, they do it. What Henry the Mechanic is worried about is that when they're pushing the engine to dyno tune it for the best settings, something's going to blow because they believe that if the AFC is cutting fuel by -40%, the engine will run too lean. They've never dealt with the hack setup, so they're kind of weary about something they've never seen before.

I told them that it'll work and that many people use it, but they don't like trying new stuff. It's sort of similar to what accordexhange was saying about Inline Pro ... good shop, just weary about something new. I've never had a problem with Motorsport Dynamics, and they've done numerous installs for me and even did my custom exhaust piping.

What I am worried about is that they'll be so pessimistic about the AFC hack that they won't even dyno tune it correctly for fear of blowing the engine. I'll wait and see what happens. I have 6 days to worry. . . .

 

ITs pretty simple like Uberteg said, they just cant do math. Most of these shop owners are just grease monkeys who have a compiled database in there head of alot of things they seen/heard/tried etc. They my know how to throw **** together but come on, thats like following baking instructions off a cake box. Realistically only about half the shop owners out there know the science, fundmentals and are truely intelligent. I mean you want a competent and intelligent person working on your car. I Its just my opinion that you should always know what the hell your doing and why its doing it.

 

just tell them you got big *** injectors and it almost doesnt matter how far you set the fuel to.. "if" your not boosting.. cuz ive tried it hehehe ive even boosted 5 psi at -50 and it was actually fine.. just tell them trust me.. and set the afc yourself then have them tune it from there

 

How's this for a AFC hack success story?

The first time I used it, I had a car completely tuned in 2 pulls. Prior to this, I had never even paid attention to what the AFC hack did. It's very intuitive if your tuner is intelligent. I'm sure they can handle it.

 

thx for the votes of confidence. I'm trying to gather a bunch of good kharma so nothing goes wrong.

 

I wonder who's 206 HP, 184 ft lbs, 9 PSI SOHC that was that only took two pulls to tune

 

I can understand thats its new to them and are abit sceptical but end of the day its a simple case of doing a little math

If they can't even work that one out - larger than stk injectors....trim fuel to maintain same level, then I would think twice about going anywhere near them!

Who do u trust? Tried n tested by HT or some sceptical monkey who jumps to conclusions before they even know whats its all about...

 

Seems like some shop wants to sell you a complete 310/FMU/missing link setup. LOL!

Dyno it, tune with two quick pulls and tell them to shove it!

 

Hey John, love the Dino Tuna. I'll see you the saturday to tune my afc hack!

 

Easier said than done. It's not that easy for everyone. That car was street tuned quite a bit before it hit the dyno. I use the hack and love it!

 

That is nothing. I have gone past many a shop with my civic and they were stunned and amazed that I could fit a Prelude engine in there... Never mind that the car drove up to the shops purring quietly and fits without any hacking to the frame..

You will always run into people that are not in the know.. Just be careful because they can be helpful in the wrong ways as well..

 

i payed them a visit to pick up my HKS VBC and re-explain what the hack was. He finally understood it when I mentioned a high-flow fuel pump. Then he said, "Oh, I see; you're providing more fuel under the same injector pulse width." So that's good. . . .

But for every positive, there's a negative, no? Well, God made me an idiot in my own freaking driveway, and I scraped my driver's side against some of our bushes. Or maybe it's His way of telling me to spend some money on a re-paint.

 

Here's my success story. Bone stock B18C putting down 330whp at 10psi took me 3 pulls to tune it. Zero detonation, Zero pinging, 12.2 A/F from 4000 to redline.

Trust me, it works

 

My useless addition to the thread -- Picture via J. Davis





[Modified by Speed PHreak, 5:41 PM 3/13/2003]

 

Took you til 1am to make that up?

 

Nope, it's a friend's. He's an insomniac.