someone told me that mounting the harness to the floor was dangerous because in the event so a front end crash, it compresses the spina. Is this true? I have several car like this in magazines and in person. I was also told that a harness is not recommended w/out a roll bar.

http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/...eddieseats.jpg


[Modified by 2fstGSR, 7:31 PM 3/6/2003]

 

You are correct. The shoulder harness should be fairly close to parallel with the ground (only slighly downward). And without a rollbar, the harness keeps your head in place - if the roof collapses in a rollover, your dead.

 

I already have 2 Sparco Clubman harnesses. Can they be mounted to a harness bar?

 

my opinion: for autocross ONLY, a harness bar and 4 pt harnesses are ok. For street or track, its NOT ok.

Is it time for me to dig up my pictures of the flattened M3 again?

joel

 

what hapenned to the M3?

 

That angle "might" be ok, but is not optimal. The ones that really make me cringe are the ones that go from the shoulder straight down to the floor behind the seat. At any rate, with no rollbar in that car, I'd say its OK for autocross, but thats it.

 

That picture makes me laugh my *** off... It looks like he was trying for the "detroit lean" with those seats....

Dan

 

so is it possible to use my Sparco 4 point harness with an Autopower Race Rollbar with a harness bar? So the Sparco harness would go over the harness bar and then down to the floor?

 

What are you doing with the car?
If this is just for street stunna style, skip the harnesses and bars. If its for autocross, a harness bar with harnesses is OK, but not exactly a wonderful choice.
For the track, you shouldnt pin yourself upright in the seat without something to keep the roof from crushing your head.

If you check the rule book for most race sanctioning bodies, they specify a range of angles for the shoulder straps of a harness and minimum clearance from the drivers head to the top of the roll bar. There are reasons for this, think about it.

But gee, I gotta admit that those seats and harnesses in that picture sure are purty.

 

What they said. And,

"The end attachments of the shoulder harness must also be installed at appropriate angles. The ideal position is anywhere between 5° below and 30° above the driver's shoulder"

For more information: http://www.sfifoundation.com/seatbelt.html

 

since those seats and harnesses aren't US spec, how race legal are they? would they even be allowable in an autox? sorry if this is o/t.

 

It rolled at summit point, turn 3 if memory serves



joel

 

You would mount the harnesses to the bar, and you would need to use a SFI approved 5/6 point belt.

 

I've seen that picture many times. Did the driver survive? That roof collapsed down to hood level, I think even in stock seat belts one could have been smashed pretty good.

 

Both driver and instructor survived. If they were wearing harnesses, they would not have survived.

This is the best evidence i've seen for rollover protection i've ever seen.

RJ

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the picture those harnesses are attached to the factory bolt holes for the rear seatbelts. With the Schroth harnesses I've used in the past, they all mounted to the rear seatbelt locations. I have always passed tech inpection for autox with this setup. Even the manufaturer of the harnesses states this is an acceptable mounting point.

 

A thought about the M3. Being a fireman in PGcounty off of 450 ive seen many a car on the beltway do the old roll , roll roll. Most of the time your body goes soo limp that your seatbelt (being a stock 3 pt) and your seat back will lay flat as your roof collapses. This is why if you run a bucket seat on the street a roll bar is recommended , correct?

Jason

 

fine. but it is not the BEST setup top avoid chances of spinal compression.

 

There's often nothing in the rulebooks for this. Its allowed for autocross, and NASA allows it for their HPDE's.

Let Darwin sort them out. I wont be found in the car with a harness and no rollbar.

 

Um, what's allowed at tech at an autocross really doesn't mean much if you ask me. I've seen some scarry isht make it through tech inspection. Just because someone else doesn't object to you doing something that risks your life doesn't mean you shouldn't.
-Adam

 

unfortunately, Midwestern Council is one of those org's that allows harnesses with no roll bar. In fact, it's in the rules. Anything outside of stock class must have harnesses, but you don't have to have a rollbar until you reach the "race" group. I've done a bit of lobbying to have this rule changed, but to no avail. Maybe i'll send them that picture and see what they have to say.

Travis Nordwald
MCSCC
DP 98 240sx

 

I brought this up on my Saturn mailing list (its full of track/autox junkies) and they thought i was completely full of **** when i suggested harnesses on track werent safe, since a few of the list members do that.

A guy i know did roll his SC2 in the mud, while wearing a 5-point. It was a very "soft" roll so it just tipped over rather than barrel-rolled. He got lucky. They seemed to think that this incident made harnesses+no rollbar just peachy.

 

Which part of "SFI" and "5° below and 30° above the driver's shoulder" didn't you understand?

Ah, there's the problem. Schroth = unsafe garbage, IMO.

This is your life we're talking about.

 

isn't schroth the people that actually make sparco's belts?

 

That would be TRW Sabelt, of Italy, IIRC.

Jon