S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile
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Painting Masterpieces
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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile
Hehehehe. . .I couldn't resist. 
And I already know what Steve and Rob will say.
S2000 w/ I/H/E vs. stock NSX 1/4mile? Who will win?
I bought a stock NSX (slow as can be) two years ago and will be running whoever has an S2K w/ I/H/E sometime in the future.
And I already know what Steve and Rob will say.
S2000 w/ I/H/E vs. stock NSX 1/4mile? Who will win?
I bought a stock NSX (slow as can be) two years ago and will be running whoever has an S2K w/ I/H/E sometime in the future.
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From: Making 1/4mi beer runs in 11sec or less
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (steve c)
What Steve says is true because there are so many variations of the NSX but not of the S2k. That being said if the NSX is a post 97 model with a manual tranny, I put my money on the NSX. (With an older NSX being slower I would say it's a driver's race. Excluding automatics of course, those just shouldn't have ever been built) S2k's are a moderately quick car, however a lot of people I see lose horsepower when modding their cars because they come so built from the factory.
There is only so much you can do with a 2.0l N/A motor. Honda has done basically everything.
-Rob-
There is only so much you can do with a 2.0l N/A motor. Honda has done basically everything.
-Rob-
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From: Bay Area
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile ( Rob)
What Steve says is true because there are so many variations of the NSX but not of the S2k. That being said if the NSX is a post 97 model with a manual tranny, I put my money on the NSX. (With an older NSX being slower I would say it's a driver's race. Excluding automatics of course, those just shouldn't have ever been built) S2k's are a moderately quick car, however a lot of people I see lose horsepower when modding their cars because they come so built from the factory.
There is only so much you can do with a 2.0l N/A motor. Honda has done basically everything.
-Rob-
There is only so much you can do with a 2.0l N/A motor. Honda has done basically everything.
-Rob-
Thread Starter
Painting Masterpieces
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile ( Rob)
Excluding automatics of course, those just shouldn't have ever been built
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From: JC, TN, US
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (Ponyboy)
Saying that nothing more can be done with 2.0 liters is misleading. A current member on s2ki had 243 dyno proven rear hp with toda cams and aem EMS tuning. He got rid of the cams but has bumped up compression to 12.5/1 with custom pistons (though spoon also makes a set of these) and runs spoon valves and springs. He is running 93 octane (pump gas here in TN) and is putting 265 to the ground. This same member is planning on putting the new toda cams (which have a more aggressive lobes than the 1st batch) in when they come out.
[Modified by ccarnel, 1:42 AM 2/25/2003]
[Modified by ccarnel, 1:42 AM 2/25/2003]
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From: Making 1/4mi beer runs in 11sec or less
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (ccarnel)
I should have been more specific with the 2.0 liter maxed out comment. Yes, you can always add big cams, etc, etc. I mean there are 2.0l LS/VTEC's that make almost 300whp on race gas. I should have been more specific to say something like "with normal bolt-on's" or "while remaining streetable" etc.
With a 3.0 NSX I would give the nod to the NSX assuming equal drivers but would consider it a drivers race. With cams I would say s2000, but by then you are talking about a stock car vs. a car with internals, so that is to be expected.
With a 3.0 NSX I would give the nod to the NSX assuming equal drivers but would consider it a drivers race. With cams I would say s2000, but by then you are talking about a stock car vs. a car with internals, so that is to be expected.
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From: Making 1/4mi beer runs in 11sec or less
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (Ponyboy)
You do know that the auto was Senna's favorite. Ick gawd, heresy!
It would seriously bother me to own that car as an auto.
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From: Making 1/4mi beer runs in 11sec or less
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (ccarnel)
The cams are streetable, and run on pump gas.
A lot of things will run on "pump gas". Hell, 110 octane gas still comes out of a pump.
There are 230whp CRV-TEC's out there that run on pump gas and can be driven everyday. However I never for one second would call them streetable. By that token I wouldn't call a Spoon crate motor streetable either. Anything made 100% for power and that doesn't take reliability into account is not IMHO streetable. I don't street a car that will need a rebuild every 10,000 miles.
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From: JC, TN, US
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (-SilveR SpooN-)
You are mistaken about the cams not being streetable as there are several members with >10,000 miles with this very setup. The lobes are not rediculously aggressive and have been put on cars used as daily drivers. When i said pump gas we are talking 92-93 octane here not race gas. The intake springs have to be replaced with the exhaust springs so that you are less likely to 'float' a valve but everything else can remain stock.
The F20c is one of Honda's more robust engines with forged internals from the factory. In fact a few members have run the comptech supercharger for >50,000 miles (mostly track time) without any issues (which adds significantly more stress than a set of mild cams).
As far as increasing compression a Canadian member ran the 12.5/1 compression pistons for over a year (much much more than 10,000 miles) and still going. Both of these modifications are quite streetable.
The F20c is one of Honda's more robust engines with forged internals from the factory. In fact a few members have run the comptech supercharger for >50,000 miles (mostly track time) without any issues (which adds significantly more stress than a set of mild cams).
As far as increasing compression a Canadian member ran the 12.5/1 compression pistons for over a year (much much more than 10,000 miles) and still going. Both of these modifications are quite streetable.
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From: Hacienda Heights, CA, USA
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (Ponyboy)
The NSX is much easier to get a consistent launch out of the hole due to its rear weight bias and a bigger displacement engine for horsepower/torque. The gearing on the pre-97 5sp, however, is too tall. Between the 1st and 2nd gear redline shift, you fall out of VTEC for the next gear. That is the only weakness against the S2000 in a 1/4 mile drag.
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Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (ccarnel)
Saying that nothing more can be done with 2.0 liters is misleading. A current member on s2ki had 243 dyno proven rear hp with toda cams and aem EMS tuning. He got rid of the cams but has bumped up compression to 12.5/1 with custom pistons (though spoon also makes a set of these) and runs spoon valves and springs. He is running 93 octane (pump gas here in TN) and is putting 265 to the ground. This same member is planning on putting the new toda cams (which have a more aggressive lobes than the 1st batch) in when they come out.
[Modified by ccarnel, 1:42 AM 2/25/2003]
[Modified by ccarnel, 1:42 AM 2/25/2003]
Thread Starter
Painting Masterpieces
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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (ak)
I wonder what Toda can do with their upcoming(or so advertised) cams for NSX.
I'm thinking the S2K is gonna have the advantage here, provided the driver understands how to launch it. Which makes it essientally a "driver's race" right?
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From: Making 1/4mi beer runs in 11sec or less
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (Ponyboy)
I personally like the CR-NSX. It's an NSX engine in the rear hatch of a CRX converted to RWD. It's built by KMS. Does that count as an NSX? If so, I think the S2k should get some KY.
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From: chicago, il, usa
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (ak)
Dont get the type r people all excited here...
Next thing you know itrs will be faster then an nsx too....
( I have notting against itr, its just some of the people that owns them makes me irritable... )
Next thing you know itrs will be faster then an nsx too....
( I have notting against itr, its just some of the people that owns them makes me irritable...
)
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Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (ccarnel)
Rob,
Why do you seem to have something against the s2000. You seem to really dislike this automobile(as myself and another member have noted... see 1st post to this thread). I actually read through the whole 15 pages of that other nonsense (ITR vs s2000... filled with misinformation... by both parties). Just seems that you like seeing this car loose... any reason why?
Why do you seem to have something against the s2000. You seem to really dislike this automobile(as myself and another member have noted... see 1st post to this thread). I actually read through the whole 15 pages of that other nonsense (ITR vs s2000... filled with misinformation... by both parties). Just seems that you like seeing this car loose... any reason why?
Actually I think Ponyboy would expect me to bash the NSX, because we have gotten into debates about the abilities of the NSX in the past. Neither is bad cars, however when compared with other cars in their price class I don't think they are amazing. (NSX more then S2000 in that case)
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Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (Nimbus)
The gearing on the pre-97 5sp, however, is too tall. Between the 1st and 2nd gear redline shift, you fall out of VTEC for the next gear.
Remember, acceleration is a function of torque at the wheels, and torque at the wheels is torque at the crank, minus drivetrain losses (relatively constant at around 11-12 percent in the NSX), times gearing.
Here is a graph of the performance of the stock 3.0 and 3.2 liter NSX engines:
As you can see, the torque curve is relatively flat, and as a result, acceleration is relatively constant throughout the rev band. There is no huge rise in torque above the VTEC crossover point at 5800 RPM, and within any gear, acceleration is not substantially greater above that point than it is below that point.
Acceleration does indeed drop significantly when you shift from first gear into second gear in the '91-96 NSX. The reason has nothing to do with VTEC. It happens because the gap between the two gear ratios is very wide. So, when you upshift from first to second, acceleration drops signficantly because of the difference in gearing, not because of the amount of torque or power at a particular point in the revband.
The Japanese market NSXs had more evenly spaced gear ratios, with the 1 - 2 upshift spaced closer together, and the 3 - 4 upshift and 4 - 5 upshift spaced further apart. Some people have installed the JDM "short" gears into the '91-96 NSX to address this issue. Installing short gears in the '91-94 3.0-liter NSX Coupe will drop 1/4 mile times by 0.11 second.
Regarding the comparison of the S2000 I/H/E with the stock NSX in the 1/4 mile, I am not familiar with times for the modded S2000 but I would imagine it would depend on the choice of I/H/E. 1/4 mile times for the stock NSX with manual transmission, as reported by the magazines, are typically around 13.8 for the '91-94 3.0-liter NSX Coupe, around 13.3 for the '97+ 3.2-liter NSX-T, and around 13.0 for the '97+ 3.2-liter NSX Coupe.
El Chico
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From: The Deep Web
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (nsxtasy)
The gearing on the pre-97 5sp, however, is too tall. Between the 1st and 2nd gear redline shift, you fall out of VTEC for the next gear.
"Falling out" of VTEC has nothing to do with the acceleration of the NSX, and is a common misconception that many people make. What VTEC does, in the NSX, is to bring in an extra cam lobe above the VTEC crossover point. That does not increase acceleration as revs go up; it is effective because it keeps acceleration from dropping off. However, the engine gets louder when VTEC kicks in, so it creates the perception that the car is accelerating faster, when in fact it isn't.
Remember, acceleration is a function of torque at the wheels, and torque at the wheels is torque at the crank, minus drivetrain losses (relatively constant at around 11-12 percent in the NSX), times gearing.
Here is a graph of the performance of the stock 3.0 and 3.2 liter NSX engines:
As you can see, the torque curve is relatively flat, and as a result, acceleration is relatively constant throughout the rev band. There is no huge rise in torque above the VTEC crossover point at 5800 RPM, and within any gear, acceleration is not substantially greater above that point than it is below that point.
Acceleration does indeed drop significantly when you shift from first gear into second gear in the '91-96 NSX. The reason has nothing to do with VTEC. It happens because the gap between the two gear ratios is very wide. So, when you upshift from first to second, acceleration drops signficantly because of the difference in gearing, not because of the amount of torque or power at a particular point in the revband.
The Japanese market NSXs had more evenly spaced gear ratios, with the 1 - 2 upshift spaced closer together, and the 3 - 4 upshift and 4 - 5 upshift spaced further apart. Some people have installed the JDM "short" gears into the '91-96 NSX to address this issue. Installing short gears in the '91-94 3.0-liter NSX Coupe will drop 1/4 mile times by 0.11 second.
Regarding the comparison of the S2000 I/H/E with the stock NSX in the 1/4 mile, I am not familiar with times for the modded S2000 but I would imagine it would depend on the choice of I/H/E. 1/4 mile times for the stock NSX with manual transmission, as reported by the magazines, are typically around 13.8 for the '91-94 3.0-liter NSX Coupe, around 13.3 for the '97+ 3.2-liter NSX-T, and around 13.0 for the '97+ 3.2-liter NSX Coupe.
"Falling out" of VTEC has nothing to do with the acceleration of the NSX, and is a common misconception that many people make. What VTEC does, in the NSX, is to bring in an extra cam lobe above the VTEC crossover point. That does not increase acceleration as revs go up; it is effective because it keeps acceleration from dropping off. However, the engine gets louder when VTEC kicks in, so it creates the perception that the car is accelerating faster, when in fact it isn't.
Remember, acceleration is a function of torque at the wheels, and torque at the wheels is torque at the crank, minus drivetrain losses (relatively constant at around 11-12 percent in the NSX), times gearing.
Here is a graph of the performance of the stock 3.0 and 3.2 liter NSX engines:
As you can see, the torque curve is relatively flat, and as a result, acceleration is relatively constant throughout the rev band. There is no huge rise in torque above the VTEC crossover point at 5800 RPM, and within any gear, acceleration is not substantially greater above that point than it is below that point.
Acceleration does indeed drop significantly when you shift from first gear into second gear in the '91-96 NSX. The reason has nothing to do with VTEC. It happens because the gap between the two gear ratios is very wide. So, when you upshift from first to second, acceleration drops signficantly because of the difference in gearing, not because of the amount of torque or power at a particular point in the revband.
The Japanese market NSXs had more evenly spaced gear ratios, with the 1 - 2 upshift spaced closer together, and the 3 - 4 upshift and 4 - 5 upshift spaced further apart. Some people have installed the JDM "short" gears into the '91-96 NSX to address this issue. Installing short gears in the '91-94 3.0-liter NSX Coupe will drop 1/4 mile times by 0.11 second.
Regarding the comparison of the S2000 I/H/E with the stock NSX in the 1/4 mile, I am not familiar with times for the modded S2000 but I would imagine it would depend on the choice of I/H/E. 1/4 mile times for the stock NSX with manual transmission, as reported by the magazines, are typically around 13.8 for the '91-94 3.0-liter NSX Coupe, around 13.3 for the '97+ 3.2-liter NSX-T, and around 13.0 for the '97+ 3.2-liter NSX Coupe.
From what I know of VTEC cam profiles, the crossover or VTEC engagement point brings in a set of larger cam profiles.
The "larger" cam profiles have a longer duration and higher lift. Again, correct me if I am wrong.
But this longer duration and increased lift results in more air/fuel coming into the combustion chamber, which does increase power and doesn't consequently just cause a "feeling of increased acceleration," it does cause acceleration.
How do I support this? The HKS 272 Cams in my Supra can only be "streetable" if used in conjuction with NO2. THese cams being of a longer duration and higher lift sacrifice low end for more top end power. Which is common for most applications in which the duration and lift are enhanced.
The reason most Honda's use VTEC is to keep everyday driving calm and fuel efficient.(i.e.-low end grunt) And still be able to romp on it when the mood hits you.
This is my take.
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Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (-SilveR SpooN-)
Mr. Meaggi(sp?).
*Shrugs* Myogi?
yea Myogi
*Shrugs* Myogi?
yea Myogi
[Modified by ak, 10:54 PM 2/25/2003]
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From: Chicago
Re: S2000 w/ I/H/E vs stock NSX 1/4 mile (Knightsport)
Actually, I am going to disagree.
How do I support this? The HKS 272 Cams in my Supra can only be "streetable" if used in conjuction with NO2.