I've been hunting for a good car to flog, and I'm basically now deciding between a Protege LX or Escort GT (1.8L DOHC BP-DE making 125hp with 2300 lbs to lug around) or a Nissan Sentra SE-R (2.0L SR20DE making 140 hp with 2400 lbs). I'm staying stock for now, so good out-of-the-box driveability would be a plus. From what I've heard, the SE-R tends to be "wallowy" (ala a GRM article), but I didn't hear too many negatives from the GRM crew about the Protege... but any first hand experiences would be great! TIA.

 

my buddy has a 91 Protege LX which we autocrossed bone stock class way back in the day.

then it got wrecked in Philadelphia and he bought a replacement. another 91 LX showroom stock racecar, stock also except for the safety equipment.

after 4 years of tracking it, he has started building it into a NASA PS car (PS-2, I think he runs). He put on a Ground Control suspension, a header, and a free flow exhaust. he was running it last year with NASA and EMRA. he had alot of fun with it last year, and zero problems. It currently has a little over 60k miles on the clock, of which about 40k are track miles. most of the rest are driving to or from the track, or using the car as emergency backup transport.


Driving impressions: stock for autocross, it was fun. i recall back then we ran in ES class, where Rabbit GTIs were tough to beat, and the 4 cylinder Mazda MX-3 was up there too. quite a bit of body roll, but most stock cars roll alot in stock setup. engine needs revs, not much torque. same basic engine as the mid 90s miatas, with a little less top end.

stock for track use, it was really really easy to drive and you could drive it at the limit for ever. very forgiving, very very easy to catch. tons of body roll. it seemed very underpowered and never got above 110 at any track I drove. the most surprising thing was that the brakes are phenomenal. you can outbrake almost anything on the track with this mother. 4 wheel disks from the factory, with large front disks. I think only the early LXs had this; later versions had smaller front calipers and rear drums..... Brakes last forever, too. We ran Porterfield R-4Es up front, and Hawk Black in the rear. in stock form, the car was simply awesome in the rain. the soft suspension, combined with no power, was great in the rain. i always enjoyed terrorizing the big horsepower cars in the rain....

now that the car has had the suspension prepped, it is really fun to drive. handling is better than my Civic right now, with less body roll and less twitchy. still easy to drive, and still good in the rain. now it really needs more power. the same motor has been in it forever, with only one freshening in 40k+ track miles. she is tired, but burns no oil and still has decent oil pressure.

In all that time, the only major failure was 3rd gear in the first tranny. we swapped in a replacement 3 years ago, and has been great ever since. these cars are awesome mechanically. really really tough. this car has seen no mercy, but continues to run. I can recommend it wholeheartedly for track use. Autocross should be no problem at all for it, too.

good luck.

 

I'd say both chassis are decent choices. My first autocross car was a D Stock '92 Sentra SE-R (it was new at the time), and it was fun, predictable and easy to drive. The limited-slip diff isn't super-effective, but sometimes I could feel something going on up there. The engine is wonderful, as 7500 rpm redlines weren't too common back there. I'd run another one in a heartbeat, although nicer ones are getting harder to find these days. Seems like they all need tranny rebuilds, while the paint on my car went bad within 3 years. On the other hands, prices today seem pretty fair.

I almost bought a Protege over the SE-R, but personally I have never autocrossed one. Still, I'm thinking about a clean Escort GT I saw today. This one does very well in our Region in H Stock, and a good friend just picked up a Protege LX for a street beater. So far, he's digging the car.

My advice would be to keep an eye out for all three cars, and take whichever one crops up in your price range. All take a common 205/50R15 tire size, and while neither one has a huge aftermarket, speed parts are out there.

 

An early SE-R with good shocks (like KYB AGX) is a good auto-x and track car. One in good condition, probably with those shocks already should be in the $3000-$3500 range.

Transmissions are rebuilt due to 5th gear pop-out. Yo-boys think it's cool to rest their hand on the shifter while cruising. That strains the shift fork, which eventually bends enough to make the car pop out of 5th gear while under load (going uphill). Eventually, it won't go into 5th gear at all ever. Rebuild time.

My car is a '91, 96,000 miles and has never done this. Oddly, I never rest my hand on the shifter.

 

No offense, but the Proteges/Escorts STRENGTH is its midrange power vs its weight. It'll destory most of the other STS cars in midrange power.

Also even a light Escort is going to be at 2400 lbs. My 92 Protege weighed 2497lbs at the Ft. Myers Tour last year. Although, I did have a sunroof car, along with every other option sans the slushbox.

 

They do? Sign me up for your Sentra wheels!! (Mine are 14x5.5" rims and only one 205 tire will fit... one of the biggest disadvantages of a stock Sentra)

I've autocrossed a stock '91 SE-R for two years now. I bought this car for its LSD. As DSW stated, it's not the greatest LSD in the world (I can get inside wheelspin without TOO much trouble) but after autocrossing a Celica GT and my car one after another, I greatly appreciated the jello box it has.

My car, with nothing more than AGXs and tire pressures, is pretty tail happy, especially on lift-throttle. It does wallow a fair amount (I would suggest replacing all the suspension bushings if you still want to keep it stock) and the tire selection is not terribly great for 14" rims...

On the reliability side, I've done nothing to this car for 50,000 miles (I bought it with 100,000) save oil changes and preventative maintenance stuff (motor mounts, clutch, etc.) and it's rewarded me with 100% reliability, including 4 track weekends, 100+ autoxes, and several 12+ hour trips.

On a national level, it's outclassed (Neons and Celicas both run 225 tires, as well as the new entries: Cooper S, etc.) but on a regional level, it's as good as anything. And myself and not a few others are betting it'll be a great contender in STS.

I love the car, but they are getting hard to find.

 

Geez, even the lunchbox can fit 225/45's

So sad....

 

Yeah, it sucks. I can't put my car in a microwave either...

 

I've autocrossed an Escort GT a time or two....

Between the Escort or Protege, I'd say go with the Protege. Ford is discontinuing many parts that are Ford-specific. Plus, Mazda pays money for 1st and 2nd place at national events.

As far as the Sentra, there is a greater number of aftermarket parts available (such as the JWT stuff). I think out of the box the Escort/Protege is a better handler, I've driven a Sentra with 8-way single adjustables and a rear sway bar and you simply have to *bury* the outside front wheel into the turns to make it work. But here in Cal Club, Matt Kogan (6th in STS at nationals) and Art Rinner are building a to-the-hilt SE-R and that should be interesting.

 

You mean... that's... NOT the way everyone turns?


It gets much better with stiffer springs. (*or* 3/8" toe-out )


Andy - whose turn-in consists of "sling wheel... wait for set... unwind wheel slightly"

 

Sorry, regarding the 205/50R15 tires, I was thinking STS. (I have STS on the brain, I guess.)

 

That's all good, but the SE-R has basically the only legal limited slip for the class. It's no Quaiffe, but it beats nothing, and nothing is what everyone else has.

Matthew Kogan took 6th in a decently prepped SE-R last year with just off the shelf stuff. This year he and a co-driver are getting all freaky-custom stuff. Look for a black SE-R from CA to be a serious, serious contender in STS in Topeka.

Edit: P.S. David: Dude, seriously, SE-R article. Now that you guys kicked the old/busted British stuff to that other mag, you have more room, right???? Right?!?!? I have an SE-R. I'm close to Kershaw or the Michelin proving grounds for testing....


[Modified by MaddMatt, 3:31 PM 2/24/2003]

 

I think these two guys from NER trophied at the Ayer Mass tour 2 years ago with a rough looking, fluid leaking, poorly prepared SE-R in STS. Great driving for sure, but that car was not built anywhere near as much as the GSR that won STS at the event.

 

illegal car.

my vote is the sentra. deadly fast in the right hands and it don't take much to make it that way.

nate

 

Due to a weenie protest of a MSD ignition box

 

Umm, didn't that same SE-R have a motor out of an Infinity?

Albeit they are the same--I still don't recall the cars being in the same line in SP

 

the G20 also shared the SR20DE as well, yes....

 

And David Avard took home a trophy in a Protege with MAJOR fuel starve issues on his fast run. Well, I guess we'll see since Will K. and Matt K. are both in SoCal and will be running against each other all year.