Wich one is better?
thank You very much

 

Spork is even better than those two. You should look them up.

 

also check out, SPooGeN

 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

That question was just asking for u to get flamed. The basic understanding that I have is they are both over priced. Mugen is more for looks and reliability and spoon is a lil more all out racing. Mugen could be something that comes factory spoon is like way overpriced dc sport stuff. 80 bucks for a thermostat?!? who is spoon fooling?

 

80 bucks for a thermostat, You Obviiously don't know Spoon you. #1 that 80 buck Rad: cap is a 1.35, factory is 1.1 meaning that the Radiator will run with more pressure cooling the motor more.... and Mugen is 1.30 but it s like factory with different spring.... the spoon is beter built... but you in GA won't know that because you use Spoom and ****.




[Modified by PaX, 6:15 AM 3/4/2003]

 

I don't think anyone has any idea what they are talking about in this thread. If you don't know please don't post and/or flame.

CivicTypeRP: You need to be more specific. Most parts both companies make are good. Did you have anything particular in mind?

 

uhmm...I don't mean to flame but you should find out the difference between a radiator cap and thermostat!

 

lol.... my bad i was thinking rad. cap and typing thermostat when i was typing i was going to add that the thermostat is different also....lol......

 

If I can... can I have my 3 minutes back?

 

sounds like we have a mugen expert lol

 

their both good if you have the funds; but like anything it will depend on application, other mod's, etc. The biggest factor though for most of us is more than likely cost.

 

Excellent post as usual, George.

 

I know the OG thread was about which was better, Mugen or Spoon. I think that it is foolish to buy anything from these manufacturers and here's why...

My civic makes 200whp with no headwork and with no Mugen or Spoon parts! That said, my car is primarily a 1/4 mile street car. If I were running N1 endurance or some type of race with continued abuse, I may need a different rad. cap or thermostat. (lol) However, there is nothing that Mugen or Spoon makes which can't be had by some other manufacturer at a fraction of the cost with equal or better performance. If you want Spoon or Mugen because you want the JDM "name brand," that's another story. In terms of performance, however, just take a look at the Mugen ECU. That ECU costs $1200!!! You can have Hondata tune an ECU on YOUR car for less than $400, and you'll get better gas mileage than with the Mugen program. What about the Spoon Type R longblock...$6000 for a basically stock Type R motor. Sure the clearances are inspected and it has balanced pistons, Spoon thermostat, and SPoon fan switch,....big deal...it stil produces right around the same HP that a stock type R does. WHY?????? You can build a USDM GSR motor to make more HP and still be reliable for an N1 endurance race, if that's your thing. In my opinion Mugen or Spoon = neither... Of course, I really want the MF10's for my RSX..lol..but no way in hell I'd pay $550 a rim!!!!! In performance it all boils down to a cost/benefit analysis...What will get you the best performance for the money you spend...Mugen and Spoon do not give you that much performance for the ridiculous amounts of money you are spending. People will have varying opinions..

 

Fraction of the cost? Examples please. And not: my buddy hooked me up with junkyard parts, yo. I'd like realistic examples giving all parts the same consideration.

Mugen ecu is made for stock cams and pre-programed from the factory for a particular application. Plus, these are new modded ECU's and not P28's found in the junkyard. Have you ever priced a new OBD-II ECU for a 2000 ITR? Quite expensive.

Price out a new longblock from the Acura Dealership and let me know how much it is. Same thing for a Spoon tranny. If you do that research, you'll see that the Spoon parts are within reason for what you get. And may Spoon/Mugen parts are built for a particular application. You do realize that many racing series in Japan aren't unlimited engine mods, right? That's why you don't see a Spoon motor built for 250whp.

That's your opinion. Not everything they make is the best of what's out there or the best price, but I have not seen an inferior part made by either one of the two places. Actually, everything they make is very high-quality IMO.




[Modified by Todd00, 2:23 PM 2/25/2003]

 

My car has both Spoon & Mugen parts.........

Nicely put.

 

Rather than reply to each individual section of your post, I'll simply say the following:

While attempting to ridicule me and suggest that I have some affinity for the junkyard (to which I've never been), you've seriously missed the point of my post. The main point is this: you can build a motor that makes tons of power without using parts from these manufacturers. Simply take a survey of the top drag race teams and see how many of them are running either Mugen or Spoon parts.

Of course your application will dictate what's right for you. I'm mostly interested in 1/4 mile racing, and occasional canyon/road racing and approached this post from that perspective. You don't need to run these parts to build a car that performs well. Most people purchase these parts because they have some need to buy JDM goods and that's fine...just not my thing.

BTW--I never said they made inferior parts. They make good quality parts just nothing I would ever purchase.

I'll give you a few examples of Mugen parts which do not out perform their counterparts

CLUTCH AND FLYWHEEL:

Clutch Masters Stage IV clutch and Flywheel =$500 (Maybe $600 or so if you don't get decent prices) No problems outside of normal wear..same for the 5 people who I know running the same setup.

Mugen clutch $600 I coldn't find a price for a flywheel...don't even know if they make one (I'm sure it's a quality piece..but you can buy a CM for $280-330 ish)

RADIATOR:

Fluydine $420 for integra $383 for civic (jdmhondaparts.com) (Most pros run this!)

Mugen $2,200 (let me say it again...$2,200!!!!!!)

VALVE SPRINGS:

Portflow inners (16) $80
ITR outers (16) $160 (inlinefour.com) (9,500 rpm and no problems yet)

Mugen: 32 springs (16inner/16 outer) $460


HEADER:

JG/Edlebrock: w/ 2.5" collector, 16hp over ITR, not as good as SMS but $420 if not less

Mugen: $975...for this price I'd get a custom made one from Elite or run SMS

EXHUAST:

Anything but Mugen: 380-600...GReddy, APEXI, TANABE, etc...

MUGEN: $975

I can go on, but I do have a life and really don't care....

Anyhow...you want to spend money on Mugen....go ahead, it's not my money. The fact remains, it isn't necessary.

 

His post is much like the Rota vs. forged wheels argument.

Sure, both will roll and one is a lot cheaper, but that doesn't mean it's meant for the same purpose or as good as the other.

If you want JDM drag ****, go buy Jun.

And I'll say again--I have yet to see a crappy part from either company. As far as your comparisons, I could make a list of **** put out by greddy, JG/Edelbrock, etc.


[Modified by Todd00, 12:26 PM 2/26/2003]

 

George Knighton, at least a voice of reason and one that can think analytically. Every comparison...except the Exhaust...is race proven. I know several people here in the Southern California region who run the exact products I mentioned and have had no problems. None of my friends or acquaintances runs a big name exhaust....they run the universal ES 2.5" muffler with either mandrel bent piping of some kind or even crimped piping. (I'm talking about 11 second all motor cars, too) If the mugen exhaust is rebuildable, then the comparison is not valid (as you said) since those exhausts mentioned are not rebuildable. As for every other part mentioned, they are indeed dyno and race proven. I'm not "hating" on Mugen or Spoon...nor did I ever state they were inferior....I just stated that you don't need their products to go fast or to have quality components.

BTW you're right about Mugen or Spoon not coming from a drag racing history nor producing products meant specifically for drag racing. So, in all fairness, that comparisson is not necessarily valid. It is valid, however, in this instance: top pro race teams have powerful motors and they do not use those parts.

As I stated in my original post, Mugen and Spoon are fine. I would never pay that much money for something I could get at a fraction of the that serves the same purpose. We don't have to agree....just tolerate each other's opinion

 

Todd00,

Really! Jun is overpriced crap from a crappy company. Sure the Jun 3 cams make power....but I've heard horror stories of those cams and people cringing as they snap at high RPM! Then, when one attempts to contact them for inferior quality, they attempt to blame it on the install. (Even from a Honda tech...lol) Skunk2, however, ate the costs for every motor they ruined on their very first run of cams. (Now that's a reputable company) I just thank God I didn't run Jun's.

I never claimed that EVERYTHING Greddy or JG/Edlebrock makes is THE BEST. Geez...you think I would go get a JG Pro Series 5 head...not in my wildest nightmares! These comparisons have nothing to do with the ROTA versus forgred wheel debate. That comparison is comparing a cheap, lightweight wheel, which is not top quality to a expensive, forged, lighter wheel, of top quality. (Depending on your application, maybe the Rota's are a better buy....if you can live with rolling on knock-offs that is!) The comparisons of parts I made or of equal quality and are race proven.

 

Japanese products =

 

It is valid, however, in this instance: top pro race teams have powerful motors and they do not use those parts.


Ive been following this post, and felt the need to chime in on this one. If your talking about any serious road racing teams here, your seriously wrong. If you've ever watched the Speed World Challange series, you have deff seen the RealTime Racing Integra Type Rs. They have won a ridiculous amount of races using a Mugen header and ECU in ALL of thier Integras.

I do respect your opinion, however. Everybody has their own style/choice/opinion/whatever, and if your a drag racer, then Mugen or Spoon is almost deff not your best bet in almost all areas. And thats fine with me. I have always preffered any form of racing that incuded turning, as I think its the only form in which the whole car is truly tested. I personally think that both companies are excellent choices, although I prefer Mugen to Spoon for the bolt-ons. I dont think quality gets any better, and Ive seen most of the other offering out there.

Just my .02

 

Well why the hell would you buy and Honda if all you wanted to do was 1/4? You could have gotten a way faster car for 1/2 the price?

A lot of people like the mugen twin loop because they are quite, unlike all the rice exhaust you mentioned.

 

 

Uhmm yeah guy

Civic hatch 3000-4000
Built street motor w/ trans etc 4-6000
misc suspension, tires etc. $2000 (being generous)

low 12's all day on pump gas, all motor
Total price $12000....name me car that does the following for $6000:

Runs low 12's all day on 91 octane
Gets over 25 mpg