I am debating over building a B18C bottom end or a B18B bottom end with a 85mm bore, high compression pistons, new rods, etc and I am wondering if the oil cooler, oil squirters, and girdle of the B18C really matter when doing road racing? How will it affect the motor under road racing conditions if I used the B18B bottom end over the B18C since I will not have these things. This build will be an all motor setup. Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks,

 

just get the b18c. its better...period...plus u get the tranny.

 

The block girdle will help immensly with your block. If you run a LS really consider using either the stock gsr or the aftermarket z10 girdle. Their purpose is to damper the bottom end at higher rpm's.

The stock factory oil cooler is a nice piece, but if you are truely going to road race then spend the money on an aftermarket oil cooler. I recommend building a custom one, its much cheaper than the kits available. Stay away from b&m. Greddy is probably the nicest for honda's on the market.

If you are going to run aftermarket pistons, then the factory oil squirters are not neccessary. They are there from the factory to help cooler the stock pistons. Aftermarket pistons have alot more oil cooling holes on the piston, so the stock pieces are not needed. In fact very serious racing engines remove them altogether to reduce weight on the pistons to free up some inertia off the rotating assembly.

 

Awesome....Thanks Boosted Hybrid! I will stick with my plan and stay with the LS block and add the girdle to it. I am also going to lengthen the rods and move the wrist pin on the piston to get a better R/S ratio which should allow me to gain a few more RPM's up top. Also, do you think the fluidyne civic radiator is adequate enough for cooling for road racing? I am wondering if I need the integra fluidyne radiator for the civic....Thanks!

 

Consider if you are running an oil cooler your oil will be around 40 degrees F cooler and that will contribute to less of a heat load on your radiator.

 

Dont go with the fluidyne stuff. PWR is the best on the market. The fluidyne has a single core, whereas the pwr has two internal cores. It also has an internal bladder for expansion if you blow your headgasket. A fluidyne will buckle out, crack and leave a nice green mess on the ground. Check out ninesecrx or earl on here. They run 335.00 shipped, best price you will find on them anywhere! Get the integra style one, you need all the cooling you can get!

 

he said just the bottom end

i go for the b18b with the money you save you can build a stronger motor just as reliable if built and tuned right and as for the girdle; it prob wont make a large diffrence unless your boosting or revin it 10k plus


[Modified by EH2-LS-TURBO, 1:17 AM 2/19/2003]

 

Actually you might as well get the b18c instead of the b18b. Revving the bottom end over 8,000rpm is a bit sketchy. The girdle is on the b18c to kill the oscillations that occur when revving the engine out. The b18b doesnt have one, this is because they were never meant to rev high, period. People have done it and dont have problems. This is in the short term. If he plans on taking his car to the road course (aka auto-x, open track days, etc...not drag racing) he can kiss that engine goodbye within a few outings. Oh, installing an aftermarket girdle/factory on a LS engine will run you at least 400-500.00 in doweling costs. If you dont dowel, kiss your main bearings good-bye. If you want the utlimate set-up install a LS crank into the gsr block. You get the oil piston squirters, girdle and head/block oil passages ready to go but get the torque powerband of the LS.

 

Thanks boosted hybrid! Since I already have a B18C, I might stay with it for the reasons you mentioned as well as cost. If I choose to go with the Integra PWR radiator, is an aftermarket oil cooler still necessary since I will be retaining the GSR factory oil cooler? Thanks....

 

oil cooler i would get, dont need the gsr one, just a good air cooled one
girdle i wouldnt bother with

 

With the LS bottom end just get your R/S up a bit more and you'll be able to rev like a B18C.... You'll need to get a custom piston with the wrist pin moved up ~3.56mm and a custom rod with that same addition (~140.62mm) to get up around the B18C 1.58 R/S and to keep the same piston-deck.. With an 85mm bore you would lose the oil squirters anyways so don't worry about them... I personally would go with the B18C but I don't like LSVTEC's external oil feed, I think they just look ugly, and I do like the B18C girdle... A lot of people will tell you not to worry about the R/S but the difference in the way a CRVTEC and a B18C rev is very noticable... I put up a vid of my friend's 2.0L GSR/EG and another of my friend's CRVTEC/EK awhile back and you can really tell... The CRVTEC is just torquey from low down and doesn't like to rev, the B18C doesn't have as much torque but it revs like crazy... If you want me to put up the vid just let me know... It's pretty big so 56K beware.. hehehe any high speed connection should be pretty quick tho... Latez

 

R:S ratio doesnt mean THAT much. Certainly not enough to warrant spending money on those custom parts.
Since when does bore size mean you lose the oil jets?
The way those two motors rev is noticable? lol thats a good one.

 

Got another question....would it be worth it to extend the rods by moving the wrist pin on custom pistons with the GSR 87mm crank? This would yield a faster piston speed and improve the rod ratio to about 1.60...but does power increase that much by using a faster piston speed? Thanks...I am learning alot!

 

sgT, do you wanna watch the video??? Motor are identical.... 84mm B18C, 84.25mm CRVTEC, 0.50:1 difference in compression, same head, same cams, basically same tuning, same slicks.... Oh and yea... How many 85mm GSR's do you see that can still run their jets???

 

I think the B18C R/S is perfect at 1.58... It's got the torque and it still winds... I guess you shouldn't worry about it because according to sgT R/S doesn't mean that much... haha, we always disagree on little things tho... Peace

 

i dont care about the video. you really cant compare two motors like
that. There are already too many differences. "basically" the same doesnt count.
how many 85mm b18c blocks do i see with oil jets? how about all of em.

 

Okay....now sorry to be a nuissance but I have done some other calculations:

GSR block w/ Gsr 87mm crank w/ 85mm bore = 1975 cc's

GSR block w/ LS 89mm crank w/ 85mm bore = 2020 cc's

does 45cc's make a noticable difference in power? *Also, if I used the LS crank, I would extend the rods as mentioned to achieve same R/S....

Thanks guys!

 

What sleeves are you running to keep the stock oil squirters? Or are you drilling and tapping new holes, then reinstalling them?

 

GE.
every one i have ever done has had zero problems with clearance
I am not moving them they sit where they did originally

 

YES i'm sure you would... The where you are gaining the extra cc's is all in the stroke and the longer stroke will just help generate more low end... It's the top end that suffers... If you got an aftermarket rod and piston you could therefore bring your R/S up a bit and make it handle the high revs better... That's why you get a lot of people that will take a CRVTEC and destroke it with the B17's 81.4mm crank... I personally think that is pointless cuz you're losing all your B20 stroke... I'm happy with an R/S around 1.6.... Peace

 

I had/have three GE blocks none of which have oil squirters in them. They get stamped out when they sleeve the engines. How are you using the squirters then?

 

stamped out? explain that

 

They stamp out the stock sleeves, this takes out the bottom of the block where the oil squirters once were. They reinstall the ductile sleeve, then set it into place with the special glue (i think, somesort of industrial polymer/adhesive). The oil squirters are then gone, with no holes to reinstall them from the missing material.

 

got a picture of that?
because all of the blocks i have all of the aluminum is intact

and the stock sleeves should be bored out, not "stamped" out

 

My bad on the terminology I just use stamped out for bored. I will try and dig up some pics in the FI section. I never snapped a pic of my last engine, and my GE sleeved 2.0 gsr block i already in my hatchback and waiting for my 2.1L to come back from GE as we speak. BTW, I am not arguing or picking a fight with you I am just curious if we are on the same page about the oil squirters.