For those who are curious and considering trying this, and those who are unsure about the whole rear-stiff setup...

First off, I should state that I auto-x much more than anything else and the car is set up for auto-x. I bought the Buddy Clubs about 9 months ago from Dave at R&D with the spring rates that come with them (12k f/8k r) (about 671 lbs. f/448lbs. r). I got them to eliminate body roll and to help in quick transitions like slaloms.
They made a tremendous improvment in these two aspects, but sweepers, tight turns, and the occasional 360 degree pivot were a nightmare- understeer and plowing galore. I tried messing with the shock settings (even as far as 16r/2f), tire settings, alignment settings.... nothing could help me ROTATE really well.
I even tried to convince myself that it was my driving until Travis drove my car and confirmed that it was true: this is a road race setup that pushes like a pig on an auto-x course.
Infact, I drove 3 or 4 HPDEs with them on the front-stiff setup and loved the feel and stability it provided. But it sucked on the auto-x course.

So, before I went and dumped $$ into a bigger rear sway bar, I wanted to try just swapping the springs.



There was an event today in Phoenix where I had the opportunity to test out this new setup. It was everything I've been missing for the past 9 months. The *** end of my car came out exactly as I intended (except for 1 time when I tried to over-push it in my TO and spun right out- gotta find the limits somehow ).
Oversteer is easy to achieve and I didn't have to sacrifice any of the quick transitions I initially fell in with.

I highly recommend this to all of you auto-xers out there.

P.S. I do think that Buddy Club's intended spring rates would work IF you had a bigger rear sway (Mugen 26mm) and wider front tires.

P.S.S. This is, of course, all IMHO. Thanks for reading, hope it helps someone.

 

Cool review, and glad you found a setting you like

 

swapping the springs... u mean between front and rear?

 

I'm sure that's what he meant.

 

Interesting review.. thanks. I had an autox yesterday and have the opposite opinion. I am running TODA Racing FIGHTEX coilover with 10kf/8kr and the JDM 23mm rear sway bar. I was so happy with the car yesterday - it felt perfectly balanced - no understeer in the tight stuff and through the slaloms it was predictable and stable (and fast).

 

No doubt. I'm sure that the difference between your 10k fronts and my 12k fronts would give you a bit more neutrality, and your 23mm bar only accentuated your already better situation. This swap gave me a great, low cost alternative to buying replacement springs and/or a new rear sway bar. Sure these things will come in the future, but for now at least I can rotate

So, even though you say you have a different opinion, you were never really in our situation in the first place ("our" being people who are currently running the "off-the-shelf" rates that the BCs came with). You definitely DO have a favorable setup, but this was more of a heads up for people who were wondering if swapping would work.

And yes, d8168055, I meant swapping front with rear Sorry my reply took so long, I was at the Grand Canyon for a couple of days.

 

are u saying 12k in the front is too much? i have been also thinking aoubt getting these buddy clubs. I also have the 23mm rear sway...

[edit]haha, i should have read ur original post again... its been a while, i for got what u wrote


[Modified by d8168055, 11:07 PM 2/12/2003]

 

Dave From R&D IM'd me earlier today and said my 14K springs are in.

 

i am definately going to try this. I'm having the exact same feelings towards my setup as well. I think my setup is more track orientated than autox. Through slaloms i felt as if i was going extremely fast and my HA's were holding up extremely well, but through sharp u turns and other tight turns, my car understeered ALOT, causing me to plow through cones. i knew that my spring rate was a bit stiff allowing all that understeer, btw, what springs did you swap the buddy clubs?

 

Yup, we have the same problem. I simply put the 12k springs that were intended for the front in the rear, and the 8k springs that were intended for the rear in the front. No new springs were purchased (I think that's what you are asking )

zygspeed, are you going to be running 12k f/14k r? what rear sway?

 

hum... all the coilovers i've seen have a stiffer front spring rate than the rear... but race crews (like realtime) have stiffer rates in the rear 14f/23r... so i guess what is proven at the track is more important!

EDIT: also, if u swap the springs, do u ahve to get an alignment everytime?


[Modified by d8168055, 11:35 PM 2/12/2003]

 

Yup, will be running the Buddy Clubs 12F/14K rear.

The car will also be running Mugen 26mm sway bars front and rear, Mugen F/R tower bars, a roll bar tied into the b-pillars with some tabs at the belt shoulder points (hopefully), a c pillar bar, as well as driver and passenger 6-pt Sparcos.


[Modified by zygspeed, 6:47 AM 2/13/2003]

 

Ummmm.

400whp. 14k rear springs. Everyone behind Ed give him plenty 'o room

Note to self. Brake in a straight line. Do not lift.

 

Don't worry, once you're behind me, I don't see much of a problem till I come around again, hehehe <evil grin>


[Modified by zygspeed, 7:19 AM 2/13/2003]

 

Zygspeed's approach speed to turn 1 at Expo = 200mph
Zygspeed's rear spring rate = 14k
Watching Ed lap everyone in the session in less than 2 laps = priceless

Did I ever tell anyone about the dream I had where I rented a ride in a Formula 1 car at Road America?

 

Ahhh, Road America ... finally a good-ole track where someone can "streach their legs"!

 

WOW, that's a crazy setup Is that a track-only car or street car? And is there a link to the rest of your project (engine, tranny, wheels, etc.)?

 

Good review, I plan on picking up some BC's this spring and am gong to do the same thing.

 

...it looked to be a great way to go sideways through 3 cones.

You and your scratched-up R! You need to start using that car for it's real purpose: waxing it up and looking purdy.

 

Well, I don't track it too often, and it may not even be driven on the street much due to the speed bumps they put in at the appartment.

But in answer to your question it is registered as a street car and will have several thousand miles a year put on it (mostly highways). Ed

I'll be on SSR comps and 032R's till they wear out, and then Dunlop D01J's.
I'm having someone (Gina: gdunn@gdminteractive.com ) work on the web site with me, which will have the complete lo-down on the car and lots of ITR Expo stuff.


[Modified by zygspeed, 3:47 PM 2/13/2003]

 

Yep, Ritchie (my UPS guy) left with them today.


Enjoy!

 

that is one funny picture...

Dave... you have a "open box, floor model, returned set" of B.C.'s laying around anywhere?

 

I love my Buddy Clubs with the spring rates that they come with, but will e awaiting a ride in Ed's car!

Thanks Dave!!




[Modified by Smitdog, 11:03 PM 2/13/2003]

 

You raise your car yet?
I'm going to have to start an "official" ride list! LOL

 

Droooooollll Dave is holding me a set, right