Im just trying to figure out which motor would be the best to put in a lighter car out of these. Either a built LS/VTEC, Type-R, or GSR. The Type R and GSR would probably get built a little down the road after the purchase but which would you think be the best desicion? TIA......

 

C5.....

 

hands down Type R

 

It depends on what your goals are with the car. I would do the gsr for turbo and the probably a built ls/vtec for an N/A car. There are many things you have to look at when determining the best setup for an application.

 

tony,why do you suggest the gsr for turbo over the type r if price isnt an issue?? just curious.

 

Im wanting this for a d/d and to be able to take it to the track every weekend or every other weekend. Im just trying to figure out which would be the best one choose. Like all around which would be the best....Again which ever one is picked its going to be built....


[Modified by TeamTooQuick, 5:34 AM 2/7/2003]

 

I would go with the gsr motor over the type r for turbo because of the more turbo friendly cams and compression. Most turbo gsr's i've seen make more than type r's with the same setup. The type r is a purpose built N/A motor while the gsr leans more toward the turbo side of things.

edit: if it's going to be built then save the money and go with the gsr. There's really no benefit that i see from the type r.


[Modified by tony1, 11:49 PM 2/6/2003]

 

I think the president of spoon sports even says the gsr is the best motor to build for turbo.Its in an import tuner interview with him.

 

the reason I prefer the type r is the crank and the head. the crank is much heavier but is factory balanced so well for high revs. so when you turn a motor 10k on boost it seems to rev so clean with the type r crank. the other thing i like about the type r is the head. i mean mine has never been touched. factory port, stock throttle body, stock intake manifold,stock cam gears and just springs retainers and valves. i'm not disagreeing with you tony, it might just be preference for me. I've never tried, but i dont think you can get 550hp out of a stock gsr head with valvetrain. Ive also never built a gsr for over 550hp so i cant comment too much. our other car is an h22.

 

We run a gsr head, it's not stock, but it's a gsr head. If you're building a motor for over 550whp then you should look into porting the head anyway. I guarantee you can get over 550hp out of a stock gsr head with valve train. The type r head isn't really that much better than a gsr head. As for the crank, we've proven a gsr crank to be very reliable at 11k rpm and a lot of power. We run a stock gsr crank and have never broken one or had a bearing problem. I don't buy the "clean rev" with the type r crank. A properly assembled, balanced, and tuned motor will rev "clean" reagardless.

 

you are right. a properly balanced motor should rev clean regardless. my point is that the type r is a lot more simple engine to build turbo if you are not looking to change every single part on the motor to get more hp here or there.reason i say this is because you can run a stock throttle body, stock intake manifold, stock port, stock cam gears, stock factory balanced crank, which keeps it very simple. no port matching manifolds,no upgraded throttle body and intake manifold, no port or polish, no chance for error w/ cam timing.besides, if you are on a budget build why not just build an 84 mm b16 with ls crank?? its 1/3 the price of a gsr. I'm not trying to argue with someone that may have forgotten more than i know but i just like to pick peoples brain a bit so dont take this personal. I'm a sponge and love to learn. thats why i live on here!!!

 

Well, you'd be surprised how much power you can get out of stock gsr parts. As for the b16 with ls crank deal, that would leave you with a very short rod and bad rod ratio. You could get pistons with the pin moved up, but now you're talking about custom rods, pistons, and still a bad rod ratio. Why would you want a b16 block with an ls crank over an ls block with an ls crank? The ls block would have a better rod ratio and still have the same displacement. Remember, the b16 has a shorter deck height. I'm not trying to argue, but why the b16/ls combo?

 

to be honest Tony I never looked at the rod ratio. Some of our customers just like to have the "2.0L". most have been happy but none were really looking to go big hp anyway.yes you need a custom piston w/ custom pin height but rod remains same length if i'm correct. I could be wrong but we get them sent to us as a kit. Ive never built an LS motor to be honest. do you recommend going straight LS and what bore size is optimal?? Most of our customers usually go with the 84mm b16 and just rev the **** out of it. the LS may be another option.


[Modified by MotorMatrix.com, 1:41 AM 2/7/2003]

 

I hate the stroke of the b16 crank. Yeah, it'll rev forever, but it sucks for torque and spooling up a turbo. I think the gsr is the best in general, but if you're not looking to rev over 8500 or so and want good midrange and torque then the ls/vtec (properly assembled) is a pretty reliable setup that makes very good power. I like these motors for a street car where a good powerband is an issue. I usually go with an 83 or 83.5mm bore just in case something happens in the future and you need to rebore it. The gsr definitely has it's advantages with the girdle, oil squiters, oil feed to head and better rod ratio than the ls, but it won't make as much power below 7500rpm as an ls/vtec with the same setup. Where an ls/vtec may peak at around 7800, a gsr may peak closer to 8500 or so. I wouldn't recommend taking an ls/vtec much over 8500-9000, but we've seen 11k in our race car many times with the gsr block. Another option is the gsr block with the ls crank. The only benefit with the gsr over this setup is the rod ratio. You still get the girdle and other extras of the gsr block. Another advantage of the gsr crank is the teflon coated rod bearings. These are some of the best bearings available and are used in many v8's in racing. Gotta love honda!

 

thanks for the info tony. I see you like the LS/vtecs alot for street cars. weve done a couple but I'm not a big fan of them for myself. I love to street race and the tq and low revving doesnt work for me. anyway thanks for all the info. I hope to see you in april. chances are we'll be in the same class. I drive the street car and if i'm lucky #1 or #2 will race #10 or some other high number and that will be me. Maybe i can get some magazine coverage that way!!

 

Sounds like a plan See you at the track!

 

built gsr

 

for an all motor set up I would choose the type R. throw in some springs/retainers and rev it too 9500. make up for any power loss against the LSvtec in the low end by running a shorter gear. I have seen a b20vtec make 230whp and I have never seen a type R do that. so i kinda want to change my opinion, humm. either one would be great but I think the key to an all motor car is the gearing so I would still go w/ the higher revving of the two. b16's just dont make any torque period, that should only be considered when on a budget.


[Modified by DIRep, 8:46 AM 2/7/2003]

 

i perfer the Ls-Vtec (with the gsr girdle) using the Gsr head and cams.....

 

Built LS/VTEC all the way.

 

I would choose a GSR block sleeved to 84mm. I actually did, twice!

 

GSR into a hatch cheaper then C5. If everything is smooth. low 14 is no problem.

 

i agree type r cranks are superior. i actually have seen a difference in power from a type r to gsr. ive seen bolt on turbo kits on both and type r always made more power. i actually ran a bone stock gsr head with just valve train and stock cams and made 550whp with 428 lbs of tq. that was on a built type r bottom end. if i had the choice i would go with type r over gsr anytime of the day. the gsr heads make goot tq. but i noticed type r heads make more top end power and rev smoother in the top end and higher. but less tq then gsr. its all personal prefferance to me.

 

why dont u just build a B20 vtec with a turbo. A long block goes for about $700-$800 then the rest of the parts will go for about $5000-$7000 if u wanna build a good motor. Trust me this would be the best 4 cylinder setup



[Modified by thid92, 4:12 PM 2/20/2003]

 

if ur building it GSR motor, no point to spend the extra 2k for stuff ur going to replace anyways. And weve always made more power stock for stock on GSR turbo motors. Gsr cams are sweet for turbo.